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The Java community has some great developers, but also a lot of Serious Software Engineers who will sabotage everything with extra complexity, and then everyone

The Java community has some great developers, but also a lot of Serious Software Engineers who will sabotage everything with extra complexity, and then everyone who learned Java in school and never felt like looking at another language (not even Kotlin). Java is definitely "boring technology", but hiring random Java developers will probably sink a company faster than doing the same for Go.

cutler 6y ago
Although still new I'm wondering whether Kotlin could be admitted to the boring technology category given that it was built to dovetail with Java and has first class Spring support?
- stepbeek 6y ago
  I’ve found kotlin to be wonderfully boring. There are definitely some sharp knives that get abused though. I’ve met a few people who want to throw OO in the bin and treat kotlin as pure FP to their detriment.
  - cutler 6y ago
    Isn't that a real option with Arrow?
    - stepbeek 6y ago
      Kind of. I don't think arrow - however good it becomes - can really compete with a language where those primitives (like do notation) come with the compiler.
whimsicalism 6y ago
> everyone who learned Java in school and never felt like looking at another language A large reason I avoid Java teams.
cbm-vic-20 6y ago
The GP comment mentions the need for finding engineers with "a proven track record of delivering value", yet here we have a concern about "hiring random Java developers". Is the industry biased against great engineers who have been working with Java for the past 20 years, even if they "deliver value" (which is pretty much impossible to determine externally)?
- lostcolony 6y ago
  No. But I, personally, am biased against hiring people with only Java on their resume. Because 90% of the time what I've encountered are people who haven't examined their technology choices, questioned the status quo, tried to -improve- things. That's not a sleight on Java, per se, but it is against anyone with only one language on their resume. It's just that if there is only one language on a resume in web dev land, it's almost always Java.
blandflakes 6y ago
Yup - it's possible to build uncomplicated software in Java, especially in recent iterations of Java and more... restrained modern frameworks. However, there's no guarantee that you're actually going to either join a team or hire a Java expert with those tastes.

cutler 6y ago

Although still new I'm wondering whether Kotlin could be admitted to the boring technology category given that it was built to dovetail with Java and has first class Spring support?

stepbeek 6y ago
I’ve found kotlin to be wonderfully boring. There are definitely some sharp knives that get abused though. I’ve met a few people who want to throw OO in the bin and treat kotlin as pure FP to their detriment.
- cutler 6y ago
  Isn't that a real option with Arrow?
  - stepbeek 6y ago
    Kind of. I don't think arrow - however good it becomes - can really compete with a language where those primitives (like do notation) come with the compiler.

whimsicalism 6y ago

> everyone who learned Java in school and never felt like looking at another language A large reason I avoid Java teams.

cbm-vic-20 6y ago

The GP comment mentions the need for finding engineers with "a proven track record of delivering value", yet here we have a concern about "hiring random Java developers". Is the industry biased against great engineers who have been working with Java for the past 20 years, even if they "deliver value" (which is pretty much impossible to determine externally)?

lostcolony 6y ago
No. But I, personally, am biased against hiring people with only Java on their resume. Because 90% of the time what I've encountered are people who haven't examined their technology choices, questioned the status quo, tried to -improve- things. That's not a sleight on Java, per se, but it is against anyone with only one language on their resume. It's just that if there is only one language on a resume in web dev land, it's almost always Java.

blandflakes 6y ago

Yup - it's possible to build uncomplicated software in Java, especially in recent iterations of Java and more... restrained modern frameworks. However, there's no guarantee that you're actually going to either join a team or hire a Java expert with those tastes.