5 ms·

Thanks for sharing. I spent some time in Europe albeit that was a long time ago and I feel like I was too young to experience the hardships of life I'm facing i

by vecinu 6y ago

Thanks for sharing. I spent some time in Europe albeit that was a long time ago and I feel like I was too young to experience the hardships of life I'm facing in the US. I know the safety nets you're referring to, they're there for health care, unemployment and worker rights. Things that don't really exist for most people in the US if they're unemployed or in a regular job. I'm lucky to be in a well paid, high lucrative job even if I have to pay the highest taxes in the US (Which let's be real, are little compared to the EU). I have a Romanian passport so it's easy to jump over the pond but I'd love my US residency and all the years I put in to be able to start switching jobs more easily. I don't want a ridiculous amount of wealth but I'd love to have a head start and secure financial freedom for my family. One of my friends just left Munich for Colorado, he said houses are still too expensive in major German cities and salaries too low. He was working remote for a SV company and making big bucks for EU standards. I keep hearing how I'll just have to swallow a tiny salary compared to SV wages if I move to any EU country, Switzerland included. I guess I have to get to the point where I'm ready to leave the consumerism behind, be happy with extra vacation / free time and "unprogram" every bad habit I learned while living in the US.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
>One of my friends just left Munich for Colorado, he said houses are still too expensive in major German cities and salaries too low. Thanks for pointing this out as it is very important information to have vs. everything we hear about Germany being "the best place in the world" and "you don't need to buy property as everyone here rents".
- blackbear_ 6y ago
  If you need another data point, my partner and I only pay about 25% of our combined after-tax salary in rent, living in a "major German city" (both employed in STEM). Factor in an additional 10/15% for living costs and we are left with significant disposable income, in my eyes.
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    Thanks for sharing. I'm curious how much do you and your spouse make as that's the main factor.
    - blackbear_ 6y ago
      55k and 75k yearly pre-tax, but as a PhD student and recent graduate we expect to get a significant increase in a few years as I also join the industry and we both level up. But, as said by others, comparing raw numbers is pointless. Even if we spent the 2/3k that are left each month, we'd still have health insurance and pension paid for by our taxes. We aren't forced to build so much wealth to weather bad times because proper insurance is built in the system.
      - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
        So you're making those numbers as PhD students instead of workers? Where do I sign up? ;) What domain are you in if you don't mind me asking?
        blackbear_ 6y ago
        Sorry I wasn't clear, my partner is an IT consultant in a large firm and there you can earn 90k or more in senior positions (say five years in). I get 55k as a PhD student and this is mandated by law, but you can get less if you don't have teaching duties.
        ChuckNorris89 6y ago
        What exactly does an IT consultant do, vs let's say, a SW developer?
        blackbear_ 6y ago
        It's project work with different clients. Each project lasts for 3 to 9 months and you are involved in many stages, from defining requirements and expectations at the beginning, to developing and possibly deploying a solution, to presenting the work done to stakeholders at the client's. After a project is done you either negotiate an extension of the project or leave maintenance to the client and leave to start a new thing. So there is much more focus on soft skills, such as leaving a good impression, properly selling your work so that the client is happy, securing future collaborations with them, and so on. And, on the flip side, hard technical skills are not that important: as long as you can produce something that works in a reasonable time and sell it well you will be fine.
tonfa 6y ago
> I keep hearing how I'll just have to swallow a tiny salary compared to SV wages if I move to any EU country, Switzerland included. Did you check e.g. levels.fyi?
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  That website is next to useless in most of europe. Too few data points and too much noise apart from a few big well known companies.
  - tonfa 6y ago
    But for the places with those well known companies it's a good way to check salaries across location. (Which should still be a proxy for overall market)
    - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
      >Which should still be a proxy for overall market Unfortunately not true. Just because some FAANG in the area will be able to pay you €150k+ TC, doesn't mean all local companies will automatically try to match that. You might be surprised how wide the TC gap is between FAANG & Co. and local players who might laugh in your face if you ask for more than €80k. Simply put, most EU companies can't match such levels of pay but will have no shortage of talent.
- vecinu 6y ago
  I have and can validate its fairly accurate numbers for FAANG / SV salaries but not so much European ones. It also gets hairy once you compare pre-tax (US Salaries) with post-tax (EU salaries) and different costs of living. I use a combination of levels.fyi, Payscale/Glassdoor plus Numbeo / Nomadlist to keep running the numbers around how much I could save by moving elsewhere.
disabled 6y ago
> I have a Romanian passport so it's easy to jump over the pond but I'd love my US residency and all the years I put in to be able to start switching jobs more easily. I don't want a ridiculous amount of wealth but I'd love to have a head start and secure financial freedom for my family. That is 100% totally understandable, and is basically the American dream, as you know. No matter what, as soon as you can: After you hold your green card long enough, make sure to naturalize as a United States citizen. A lot of green card holders never bother to become US citizens. I always encourage people I know to do so. But, generally speaking, once you are a citizen, you are a citizen: it can never be taken away from you. We need people like you and your family as US citizens. I would get a lawyer, but many lawyers can be sketchy. My best advice would be to go to the Embassies of Switzerland/France/Germany/Canada/UK/etc. to the US websites' and go to their "legal advice" page. There usually is a PDF list of American lawyers. On there, it will specify their area of practice. Obviously, you want an immigration lawyer. Lawyers can be sketchy, so you need to vet them out for any possible red flags, such as "positive counter-reviews", "any bad reviews", or "painting an overly perfect picture of oneself". If they are involved in commerce associations or any sort of business association (especially if it involves complicated laws or situations), this can be a good sign, as they have to get along with others and just get stuff done in general. From there you make a list of prospective lawyers, email them, and go from there. I would also ask for references, both on a professional level and from actual clients, too.
- vecinu 6y ago
  It's interesting you say that, I last decided to skip US citizenship due to the fact that the IRS will haunt you for taxes (Double tax treaties, foreign tax credits yeah yeah but it's a hassle) and as mentioned in other replies, being a "US Person" is such a hassle for opening foreign bank or brokerage accounts. I value the point of citizenship and passports but getting the US one seems to be shooting yourself in the foot if you don't ever see yourself moving back to the US. I know for sure if I leave, I'm not planning to retire anywhere in the US so it would be a tough sell to go for citizenship.
  - disabled 6y ago
    > It's interesting you say that, I last decided to skip US citizenship due to the fact that the IRS will haunt you for taxes (Double tax treaties, foreign tax credits yeah yeah but it's a hassle) and as mentioned in other replies, being a "US Person" is such a hassle for opening foreign bank or brokerage accounts. Sorry, but this is not true at all. I was being dead serious about suggesting that you might as well naturalize as a United States citizen. You are already liable for US taxes for at least the next 10 years abroad, from the date you have been judicially determined to have abandoned your green card. You do not acquire this status by not fulfilling the requirements of your green card, either: you need to fill out an I-407 form or a Letter of Intent to Abandon Residence Status. Then, at some point, you receive a judicial determination and have to pay taxes for the next 10 years to the US, from that date, while abroad. See: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/visa-green-card-holder-pay-taxes-29639.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/visa-green-card-hold... The worst part is that due to FATCA, they can literally seize your bank accounts that you hold abroad. Anyways, this is a good overview for "playing your cards", with respect to pensions and taxes, while abroad, as a green card holder or an American: https://www.goldinglawyers.com/green-card-holder-foreign-income-2018-u-s-tax-fatca-fbar/ https://www.goldinglawyers.com/green-card-holder-foreign-inc...

by vecinu 6y ago

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

>One of my friends just left Munich for Colorado, he said houses are still too expensive in major German cities and salaries too low. Thanks for pointing this out as it is very important information to have vs. everything we hear about Germany being "the best place in the world" and "you don't need to buy property as everyone here rents".

blackbear_ 6y ago
If you need another data point, my partner and I only pay about 25% of our combined after-tax salary in rent, living in a "major German city" (both employed in STEM). Factor in an additional 10/15% for living costs and we are left with significant disposable income, in my eyes.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  Thanks for sharing. I'm curious how much do you and your spouse make as that's the main factor.
  - blackbear_ 6y ago
    55k and 75k yearly pre-tax, but as a PhD student and recent graduate we expect to get a significant increase in a few years as I also join the industry and we both level up. But, as said by others, comparing raw numbers is pointless. Even if we spent the 2/3k that are left each month, we'd still have health insurance and pension paid for by our taxes. We aren't forced to build so much wealth to weather bad times because proper insurance is built in the system.
    - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
      So you're making those numbers as PhD students instead of workers? Where do I sign up? ;) What domain are you in if you don't mind me asking?
      - blackbear_ 6y ago
        Sorry I wasn't clear, my partner is an IT consultant in a large firm and there you can earn 90k or more in senior positions (say five years in). I get 55k as a PhD student and this is mandated by law, but you can get less if you don't have teaching duties.
        ChuckNorris89 6y ago
        What exactly does an IT consultant do, vs let's say, a SW developer?
        blackbear_ 6y ago
        It's project work with different clients. Each project lasts for 3 to 9 months and you are involved in many stages, from defining requirements and expectations at the beginning, to developing and possibly deploying a solution, to presenting the work done to stakeholders at the client's. After a project is done you either negotiate an extension of the project or leave maintenance to the client and leave to start a new thing. So there is much more focus on soft skills, such as leaving a good impression, properly selling your work so that the client is happy, securing future collaborations with them, and so on. And, on the flip side, hard technical skills are not that important: as long as you can produce something that works in a reasonable time and sell it well you will be fine.

tonfa 6y ago

> I keep hearing how I'll just have to swallow a tiny salary compared to SV wages if I move to any EU country, Switzerland included. Did you check e.g. levels.fyi?

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
That website is next to useless in most of europe. Too few data points and too much noise apart from a few big well known companies.
- tonfa 6y ago
  But for the places with those well known companies it's a good way to check salaries across location. (Which should still be a proxy for overall market)
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    >Which should still be a proxy for overall market Unfortunately not true. Just because some FAANG in the area will be able to pay you €150k+ TC, doesn't mean all local companies will automatically try to match that. You might be surprised how wide the TC gap is between FAANG & Co. and local players who might laugh in your face if you ask for more than €80k. Simply put, most EU companies can't match such levels of pay but will have no shortage of talent.
vecinu 6y ago
I have and can validate its fairly accurate numbers for FAANG / SV salaries but not so much European ones. It also gets hairy once you compare pre-tax (US Salaries) with post-tax (EU salaries) and different costs of living. I use a combination of levels.fyi, Payscale/Glassdoor plus Numbeo / Nomadlist to keep running the numbers around how much I could save by moving elsewhere.

disabled 6y ago

> I have a Romanian passport so it's easy to jump over the pond but I'd love my US residency and all the years I put in to be able to start switching jobs more easily. I don't want a ridiculous amount of wealth but I'd love to have a head start and secure financial freedom for my family. That is 100% totally understandable, and is basically the American dream, as you know. No matter what, as soon as you can: After you hold your green card long enough, make sure to naturalize as a United States citizen. A lot of green card holders never bother to become US citizens. I always encourage people I know to do so. But, generally speaking, once you are a citizen, you are a citizen: it can never be taken away from you. We need people like you and your family as US citizens. I would get a lawyer, but many lawyers can be sketchy. My best advice would be to go to the Embassies of Switzerland/France/Germany/Canada/UK/etc. to the US websites' and go to their "legal advice" page. There usually is a PDF list of American lawyers. On there, it will specify their area of practice. Obviously, you want an immigration lawyer. Lawyers can be sketchy, so you need to vet them out for any possible red flags, such as "positive counter-reviews", "any bad reviews", or "painting an overly perfect picture of oneself". If they are involved in commerce associations or any sort of business association (especially if it involves complicated laws or situations), this can be a good sign, as they have to get along with others and just get stuff done in general. From there you make a list of prospective lawyers, email them, and go from there. I would also ask for references, both on a professional level and from actual clients, too.

vecinu 6y ago
It's interesting you say that, I last decided to skip US citizenship due to the fact that the IRS will haunt you for taxes (Double tax treaties, foreign tax credits yeah yeah but it's a hassle) and as mentioned in other replies, being a "US Person" is such a hassle for opening foreign bank or brokerage accounts. I value the point of citizenship and passports but getting the US one seems to be shooting yourself in the foot if you don't ever see yourself moving back to the US. I know for sure if I leave, I'm not planning to retire anywhere in the US so it would be a tough sell to go for citizenship.
- disabled 6y ago
  > It's interesting you say that, I last decided to skip US citizenship due to the fact that the IRS will haunt you for taxes (Double tax treaties, foreign tax credits yeah yeah but it's a hassle) and as mentioned in other replies, being a "US Person" is such a hassle for opening foreign bank or brokerage accounts. Sorry, but this is not true at all. I was being dead serious about suggesting that you might as well naturalize as a United States citizen. You are already liable for US taxes for at least the next 10 years abroad, from the date you have been judicially determined to have abandoned your green card. You do not acquire this status by not fulfilling the requirements of your green card, either: you need to fill out an I-407 form or a Letter of Intent to Abandon Residence Status. Then, at some point, you receive a judicial determination and have to pay taxes for the next 10 years to the US, from that date, while abroad. See: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/visa-green-card-holder-pay-taxes-29639.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/visa-green-card-hold... The worst part is that due to FATCA, they can literally seize your bank accounts that you hold abroad. Anyways, this is a good overview for "playing your cards", with respect to pensions and taxes, while abroad, as a green card holder or an American: https://www.goldinglawyers.com/green-card-holder-foreign-income-2018-u-s-tax-fatca-fbar/ https://www.goldinglawyers.com/green-card-holder-foreign-inc...