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Australian Facebook News Ban Isn’t About Democracy

21 points by samizdis 6y ago

RileyJames 6y ago
> The only real way out of the impasse is to campaign for a decommodified, baron-free media under public ownership and democratic control. Frustratingly, we have this in Australia, and it’s bloody good. The ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission) is ad free, government funded TV and radio, available nationally. But of course the government attempts to cut or limit their budget. The most recent was ‘not a budget cut’, but rather froze their funding, to let inflation do the work. My only hope in this current debacle is that it makes a loser of Facebook, NewsCorp and Scott Morrison. Any other result is a loss for the people, Australian or otherwise.
- shard972 6y ago
  > Frustratingly, we have this in Australia, and it’s bloody good. The ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission) is ad free, government funded TV and radio, available nationally. And horribly bias to the left.
federona 6y ago
At some point perhaps we will make laws that say if you have a certain amount of economic power, you can not convert that into social power through buying up the media. Economic power should not be translatable to political or social power, or else the entire system is controlled by money rather than by an ideology like humanism, science, and democracy. That is to say that companies in the media including social networks should be independent organizations funded by the government like BBC.
chmod775 6y ago
Facebook isn't a real monopoly unless you consider "social network" a real product. But in reality "social network" as a product is a bit thin, since it's really just a crossover of blogging and communication. There's nothing of value that facebook does which the general populace can't replace with something else within a week. People won't run out of ways to communicate with each other, and they won't run out of ways to shout and throw pictures into the void. In fact people used to change platforms like clothes and the continued dominance of facebook in a lot of countries is a bit of an anomaly. Also only about 50% of Australians even are on Facebook, which is slightly more than Europeans, but way less than north Americans.
- z92 6y ago
  > continued dominance of facebook in a lot of countries is a bit of an anomaly. Scaling for cheap is the winning strategy here. Google had its social network before facebook too. Orkut. Didn't scale cheaply. Invite only to limit load. Facebook could do it. Fast loading pages serving billions. I was trying gab.com recently. Too slow. Too much non responsive. Even after they are trying their best. And even though they make money from premium membership.
  - smt88 6y ago
    Just to be clear, you think the company that runs Gmail and YouTube failed at a social network because they couldn't figure out how to scale it efficiently?
- smt88 6y ago
  > But in reality "social network" as a product is a bit thin, since it's really just a crossover of blogging and communication. > There's nothing of value that facebook does which the general populace can't replace with something else within a week. This is a very engineer-y way to understand the value of Facebook. No one logs on to Facebook because it automates publishing and messaging extraordinarily well. They log on because it's the only place to access enormous amounts of data created by friends, family, groups, and local businesses. If using Facebook is the only way to see daily photos of my grandchildren, I'm going to use it. > Also only about 50% of Australians are even on Facebook. How many are on either Facebook, Instagram, or WhatsApp? I guarantee the number is far more than 50%.
- nathias 6y ago
  people that used to change platforms like clothes and people on facebook are not the same people
underseacables 6y ago
“ - it’s a battle between two rival monopolies“ While I was reading this article I was reminded of the phenomenal book by Tim Wu, The Master Switch. Facebook is a “new”technology-monopoly that appears to be working to supplant an “old” technology - the news industry, but the news industry won’t die.
hedora 6y ago
News Corp should be broken up. Their propaganda brought us Brexit, and installed a US president and Australian prime minister. The US should reinstate media ownership rules (as Australia recently attempted until News Corp blocked it).
- dilutedh2o 6y ago
  Convenient for you to call it propaganda when it doesn't divulge the narrative you want to hear. Anyone can make your argument, regardless of political stance. What you end up with is the most convincing and popular narrative becoming the only lawful story that can be told. No thanks.
  - ostenning 6y ago
    Narrative aside, Newscorp owns 100% of print media in Queensland and 70% Australia wide. Murdoch’s empire engages in anticompetitive practices destroying competition in Australia. Newscorp’s power corrupts the political landscape as well, ousting multiple Australian Prime Ministers (Labor and Liberal), as recently heard by PM Kevin Rudd at the Enquiry Into Media Diversity. https://youtu.be/Ap_LuSQ5NSc?t=953 https://youtu.be/Ap_LuSQ5NSc?t=953 Newscorp has created an atmosphere of fear in the political landscape and those who do not obey, are dismembered slowly but surely. In my opinion, it’s an absolute crisis with media in Australia lulling people into uneducated and misinformed opinions, often pandering to fear whilst often exploiting minorities for headlines. We need to act now to fix it.
    - dilutedh2o 6y ago
      I'm all for exposing and thwarting anti competitive practices but I want to see this happen on both sides of the spectrum.
      - hellisothers 6y ago
        What spectrum are you referring to?
      - 6y ago
andresp 6y ago
Facebook (and Twitter) consider themselves more important than what they actually are. Maybe they are relevant for people that are heavily invested in their online accounts and followers, but for most people they are just a distraction. It is very easy to replace that minimal use case with something else.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

21 points by samizdis 6y ago

> The only real way out of the impasse is to campaign for a decommodified, baron-free media under public ownership and democratic control. Frustratingly, we have this in Australia, and it’s bloody good. The ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission) is ad free, government funded TV and radio, available nationally. But of course the government attempts to cut or limit their budget. The most recent was ‘not a budget cut’, but rather froze their funding, to let inflation do the work. My only hope in this current debacle is that it makes a loser of Facebook, NewsCorp and Scott Morrison. Any other result is a loss for the people, Australian or otherwise.

shard972 6y ago
> Frustratingly, we have this in Australia, and it’s bloody good. The ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission) is ad free, government funded TV and radio, available nationally. And horribly bias to the left.

federona 6y ago

At some point perhaps we will make laws that say if you have a certain amount of economic power, you can not convert that into social power through buying up the media. Economic power should not be translatable to political or social power, or else the entire system is controlled by money rather than by an ideology like humanism, science, and democracy. That is to say that companies in the media including social networks should be independent organizations funded by the government like BBC.

chmod775 6y ago

Facebook isn't a real monopoly unless you consider "social network" a real product. But in reality "social network" as a product is a bit thin, since it's really just a crossover of blogging and communication. There's nothing of value that facebook does which the general populace can't replace with something else within a week. People won't run out of ways to communicate with each other, and they won't run out of ways to shout and throw pictures into the void. In fact people used to change platforms like clothes and the continued dominance of facebook in a lot of countries is a bit of an anomaly. Also only about 50% of Australians even are on Facebook, which is slightly more than Europeans, but way less than north Americans.

z92 6y ago
> continued dominance of facebook in a lot of countries is a bit of an anomaly. Scaling for cheap is the winning strategy here. Google had its social network before facebook too. Orkut. Didn't scale cheaply. Invite only to limit load. Facebook could do it. Fast loading pages serving billions. I was trying gab.com recently. Too slow. Too much non responsive. Even after they are trying their best. And even though they make money from premium membership.
- smt88 6y ago
  Just to be clear, you think the company that runs Gmail and YouTube failed at a social network because they couldn't figure out how to scale it efficiently?
smt88 6y ago
> But in reality "social network" as a product is a bit thin, since it's really just a crossover of blogging and communication. > There's nothing of value that facebook does which the general populace can't replace with something else within a week. This is a very engineer-y way to understand the value of Facebook. No one logs on to Facebook because it automates publishing and messaging extraordinarily well. They log on because it's the only place to access enormous amounts of data created by friends, family, groups, and local businesses. If using Facebook is the only way to see daily photos of my grandchildren, I'm going to use it. > Also only about 50% of Australians are even on Facebook. How many are on either Facebook, Instagram, or WhatsApp? I guarantee the number is far more than 50%.
nathias 6y ago
people that used to change platforms like clothes and people on facebook are not the same people

underseacables 6y ago

“ - it’s a battle between two rival monopolies“ While I was reading this article I was reminded of the phenomenal book by Tim Wu, The Master Switch. Facebook is a “new”technology-monopoly that appears to be working to supplant an “old” technology - the news industry, but the news industry won’t die.

hedora 6y ago

News Corp should be broken up. Their propaganda brought us Brexit, and installed a US president and Australian prime minister. The US should reinstate media ownership rules (as Australia recently attempted until News Corp blocked it).

dilutedh2o 6y ago
Convenient for you to call it propaganda when it doesn't divulge the narrative you want to hear. Anyone can make your argument, regardless of political stance. What you end up with is the most convincing and popular narrative becoming the only lawful story that can be told. No thanks.
- ostenning 6y ago
  Narrative aside, Newscorp owns 100% of print media in Queensland and 70% Australia wide. Murdoch’s empire engages in anticompetitive practices destroying competition in Australia. Newscorp’s power corrupts the political landscape as well, ousting multiple Australian Prime Ministers (Labor and Liberal), as recently heard by PM Kevin Rudd at the Enquiry Into Media Diversity. https://youtu.be/Ap_LuSQ5NSc?t=953 https://youtu.be/Ap_LuSQ5NSc?t=953 Newscorp has created an atmosphere of fear in the political landscape and those who do not obey, are dismembered slowly but surely. In my opinion, it’s an absolute crisis with media in Australia lulling people into uneducated and misinformed opinions, often pandering to fear whilst often exploiting minorities for headlines. We need to act now to fix it.
  - dilutedh2o 6y ago
    I'm all for exposing and thwarting anti competitive practices but I want to see this happen on both sides of the spectrum.
    - hellisothers 6y ago
      What spectrum are you referring to?
    - 6y ago

andresp 6y ago

Facebook (and Twitter) consider themselves more important than what they actually are. Maybe they are relevant for people that are heavily invested in their online accounts and followers, but for most people they are just a distraction. It is very easy to replace that minimal use case with something else.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]