4 ms·

Reconstructing the Menu of a Pub in Ancient Pompeii

134 points by diodorus 6y ago

simlan 6y ago
Thanks for sharing. I love it. Might add it to the food plan !;)
- SavantIdiot 6y ago
  "Pound pepper, lovage, cumin, coriander, laser root, rue, caroenum, honey, pour on some of the cooking liquor, flavour with vinegar. " I'll just nip of to the market, then. brb.
  - twic 6y ago
    We had this recipe for Christmas one year. With a few substitutions according to what was available - damson juice instead of grape juice, for example. It was very nice.
    - SavantIdiot 6y ago
      Was the laser root good? "Silphium (also known as silphion, laserwort, or laser) is an unidentified plant that was used in classical antiquity as a seasoning, perfume, aphrodisiac, and medicine."
      - technothrasher 6y ago
        The author of the article substituted asafoetida for the laser.
      - twic 6y ago
        I can't remember what we used instead of that!
  - fao_ 6y ago
    Pepper, Cumin, Coriander, Honey: All readily available. Lovage: Easy to get hold of if you're in Europe according to Wikipedia "its flavor and smell can be described as a mix of Celery and Parsley, but with a higher intensity of both of those flavors". So, literally just add in a large amount of those to compensate for the strength. Caroneum: According to this website[0] "as long as you can find a carton of white grape juice, you're set" to make it, so that's readily available. Rue - According to Wikipedia "Rue extracts are mutagenic and hepatotoxic". It's bitter, so you could very likely substitute a fair amount of Fenugreek for it, which is bitter but fragrant. Laser Root - Also known as Ailphium, this no longer exists. However, Asafeotida "had similar enough qualities that Romans, including the geographer Strabo, used the same word to describe both". So literally just use that. So in other words you use Pepper, Cumin, Coriander, Celery, Parsley, Homemade Caroneum, Fenugreek, Asafeotida, and Honey. Which really doesn't sound that difficult to get hold of, does it? [0]: https://pass-the-garum.blogspot.com/2013/03/caroenum.html https://pass-the-garum.blogspot.com/2013/03/caroenum.html
    - Clewza313 6y ago
      Asafoetida has an extremely strong smell though: if you use the same amount (half teaspoon) as the other spices, it will completely overpower them. It's common in Indian cooking, but the quantity typically used is a literal pinch.
      - fao_ 6y ago
        I haven't found that to be the case when cooked. Commercial asafoetida is mixed with tumeric for colour, and rice flour to reduce it to edible porportions. Please don't use pure asafoetida, I don't know of anyone else that does that and it will just smell horrible, along with giving you stomach problems. Even forms of asafoetida you can find in non-western countries are typically mixed with rice flour.
        blodorn 6y ago
        Pure asafoetida is fine to use, it doesn't smell bad, it doesn't give you stomach problems. You dilute it with the food you cook with it. It doesn't need it adulterated with flour and turmeric. Here is a good brand that I like, "Best Hing Ever". Hing is another name for asafoetida. https://www.pureindianfoods.com/hing-asafoetida-powder-p/hing.htm https://www.pureindianfoods.com/hing-asafoetida-powder-p/hin...
galkk 6y ago
Don't forget that the ingridients themselves could have changed considerably, as an example look at watermelon painting of 17th century and modern: https://www.biostandups.com/agricultural/evolution-fruits-vegetables-domestication-nature/ https://www.biostandups.com/agricultural/evolution-fruits-ve...
- wikibob 6y ago
  This watermelon image has been widely debunked. Will find the source if necessary.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    The debunking seems somewhat doubtful, they claimed it was just unripe or under watered but the seeds apparently signify that those are untrue.
  - EE84M3i 6y ago
    I would appreciate a source. I could only find a source the other direction. https://www.vox.com/2015/7/28/9050469/watermelon-breeding-paintings https://www.vox.com/2015/7/28/9050469/watermelon-breeding-pa...
    - gruez 6y ago
      Read the update at the bottom of that article
      - EE84M3i 6y ago
        As far as I can tell the update supports the article's conclusion?
- nescioquid 6y ago
  I can suggest that the carrot and parsnip were probably different in the ancient world. There is a weird confusion around the Latin "pastinaca", given as "parsnip" because in antiquity, the two vegetables looked similar (white/purple). Further, Latin doesn't seem to have a distinct word for "carrot" (with an attested usage, at any rate). Laser went extinct (I skimmed some of the article, so maybe that was mentioned). And, well, today, Roman artichokes are different than any I've ever had (I believe it is a varietal we sadly don't see in the USA).
h2odragon 6y ago
The "extremely assorted bones and shells" pot is explained simply by the presence of the dog: stuff the dog shouldn't get.
dominicjj 6y ago
"To accompany the main dish, I chose to include mensae, a flatbread that was once thought to be used as both a plate and a utensil. Virgil describes enjoying mensae this way in The Aeneid: After Aeneas and his men eat their meals off the flatbread, they remark, 'Oh, look! we are eating our tables too!'” A Latin pun: mensa means table.

134 points by diodorus 6y ago

simlan 6y ago

Thanks for sharing. I love it. Might add it to the food plan !;)

SavantIdiot 6y ago
"Pound pepper, lovage, cumin, coriander, laser root, rue, caroenum, honey, pour on some of the cooking liquor, flavour with vinegar. " I'll just nip of to the market, then. brb.
- twic 6y ago
  We had this recipe for Christmas one year. With a few substitutions according to what was available - damson juice instead of grape juice, for example. It was very nice.
  - SavantIdiot 6y ago
    Was the laser root good? "Silphium (also known as silphion, laserwort, or laser) is an unidentified plant that was used in classical antiquity as a seasoning, perfume, aphrodisiac, and medicine."
    - technothrasher 6y ago
      The author of the article substituted asafoetida for the laser.
    - twic 6y ago
      I can't remember what we used instead of that!
- fao_ 6y ago
  Pepper, Cumin, Coriander, Honey: All readily available. Lovage: Easy to get hold of if you're in Europe according to Wikipedia "its flavor and smell can be described as a mix of Celery and Parsley, but with a higher intensity of both of those flavors". So, literally just add in a large amount of those to compensate for the strength. Caroneum: According to this website[0] "as long as you can find a carton of white grape juice, you're set" to make it, so that's readily available. Rue - According to Wikipedia "Rue extracts are mutagenic and hepatotoxic". It's bitter, so you could very likely substitute a fair amount of Fenugreek for it, which is bitter but fragrant. Laser Root - Also known as Ailphium, this no longer exists. However, Asafeotida "had similar enough qualities that Romans, including the geographer Strabo, used the same word to describe both". So literally just use that. So in other words you use Pepper, Cumin, Coriander, Celery, Parsley, Homemade Caroneum, Fenugreek, Asafeotida, and Honey. Which really doesn't sound that difficult to get hold of, does it? [0]: https://pass-the-garum.blogspot.com/2013/03/caroenum.html https://pass-the-garum.blogspot.com/2013/03/caroenum.html
  - Clewza313 6y ago
    Asafoetida has an extremely strong smell though: if you use the same amount (half teaspoon) as the other spices, it will completely overpower them. It's common in Indian cooking, but the quantity typically used is a literal pinch.
    - fao_ 6y ago
      I haven't found that to be the case when cooked. Commercial asafoetida is mixed with tumeric for colour, and rice flour to reduce it to edible porportions. Please don't use pure asafoetida, I don't know of anyone else that does that and it will just smell horrible, along with giving you stomach problems. Even forms of asafoetida you can find in non-western countries are typically mixed with rice flour.
      - blodorn 6y ago
        Pure asafoetida is fine to use, it doesn't smell bad, it doesn't give you stomach problems. You dilute it with the food you cook with it. It doesn't need it adulterated with flour and turmeric. Here is a good brand that I like, "Best Hing Ever". Hing is another name for asafoetida. https://www.pureindianfoods.com/hing-asafoetida-powder-p/hing.htm https://www.pureindianfoods.com/hing-asafoetida-powder-p/hin...

galkk 6y ago

Don't forget that the ingridients themselves could have changed considerably, as an example look at watermelon painting of 17th century and modern: https://www.biostandups.com/agricultural/evolution-fruits-vegetables-domestication-nature/ https://www.biostandups.com/agricultural/evolution-fruits-ve...

wikibob 6y ago
This watermelon image has been widely debunked. Will find the source if necessary.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  The debunking seems somewhat doubtful, they claimed it was just unripe or under watered but the seeds apparently signify that those are untrue.
- EE84M3i 6y ago
  I would appreciate a source. I could only find a source the other direction. https://www.vox.com/2015/7/28/9050469/watermelon-breeding-paintings https://www.vox.com/2015/7/28/9050469/watermelon-breeding-pa...
  - gruez 6y ago
    Read the update at the bottom of that article
    - EE84M3i 6y ago
      As far as I can tell the update supports the article's conclusion?
nescioquid 6y ago
I can suggest that the carrot and parsnip were probably different in the ancient world. There is a weird confusion around the Latin "pastinaca", given as "parsnip" because in antiquity, the two vegetables looked similar (white/purple). Further, Latin doesn't seem to have a distinct word for "carrot" (with an attested usage, at any rate). Laser went extinct (I skimmed some of the article, so maybe that was mentioned). And, well, today, Roman artichokes are different than any I've ever had (I believe it is a varietal we sadly don't see in the USA).

h2odragon 6y ago

The "extremely assorted bones and shells" pot is explained simply by the presence of the dog: stuff the dog shouldn't get.

dominicjj 6y ago

"To accompany the main dish, I chose to include mensae, a flatbread that was once thought to be used as both a plate and a utensil. Virgil describes enjoying mensae this way in The Aeneid: After Aeneas and his men eat their meals off the flatbread, they remark, 'Oh, look! we are eating our tables too!'” A Latin pun: mensa means table.