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I'm curious if you're able to think of one non-selfish reason to have children? You mention having a child is an experience in which you wish to take part; you

I'm curious if you're able to think of one non-selfish reason to have children? You mention having a child is an experience in which you wish to take part; you relish the thought of being less self-centered. Too little weight is given to the fact that no consciousness exists because it has willed itself into existence. Put another way, nothing consents to being given life. A feeling mind will come into being, suffer throughout life, likely watch you die, and eventually die itself because you wanted to feel fulfilled. I want a child, therefore I will bring one into this world. Often, it's said having a child is an act of selflessness. I see it the opposite way. On the flip side, adopting a child is the most selfless thing you can do, in my opinion. Why do only 4% of American households w/ children have an adopted child*? The OP's blog post is surmising it's because we procreate to achieve some tangible sense of immortality, as we consider the passing of our genetic material to be the next best thing to actual in-the-flesh eternal life. The anthropologist Earnest Becker wrote a book in the '70s called The Denial of Death which reaches much the same conclusion, only broader: that all of civilization is an effort to achieve symbolic if not literal immortality. * https://adoptionnetwork.com/knowledge-hub/adoption-myths-facts/domestic-us-statistics/ https://adoptionnetwork.com/knowledge-hub/adoption-myths-fac...

slibhb 6y ago
> I'm curious if you're able to think of one non-selfish reason to have childrena? I enjoy being alive and experiencing things. I think this is true for most people. Therefore having children is moral.
- KronisLV 6y ago
  But being brought into this world and knowing that one day your life is most likely going to end and that there's almost nothing that you can feasibly do to avoid it can easily balance out the positive aspects of being alive. Personally, after often experiencing such existential dread and finding that it impacts my life in a pretty negative way, i've largely switched over to the nihilism school of thought. Then, it can be argued that bringing children into this world just to doom them to a similar fate would be pretty immoral.
  - pixl97 6y ago
    The immorality of it is irrelevant. People that feel it is moral will have children, people that feel it is immoral will not. Unless you also want to commit an act that I believe is immoral, and prevent others from having children.
    - KronisLV 6y ago
      > Unless you also want to commit an act that I believe is immoral, and prevent others from having children. I want no such thing, merely offering my differing point of view here. It probably doesn't have relevance or any sort of impact in the lives of most people, but claiming that having children is universally moral could be challenged at the very least. If nothing else, each child is another mouth to feed and will contribute to the carbon footprint of our species. While the planet could sustain more people on it, in our current climate of consumerism, i personally don't believe that the world needs to strive towards overpopulation and accelerated exhaustion of the resources that we have (amongst other things).
  - runsWphotons 6y ago
    One might respond to this challenge by developing a tradition for guiding children away from nihilism.
  - slibhb 6y ago
    But do you think most people agree with you? It's clear that most people are happy to be alive. So even if you personally don't like being alive, having children is moral. I can imagine a world where having children wouldn't be moral. It would be a world in which most people hated being alive. We don't appear to live in that world.
kubanczyk 6y ago
You've turned a parent's very minor point (literally only mentioned in parentheses!) into a mountain bigger than Mount Everest. That says a lot about you, but not much about parenting.
- causasui 6y ago
  I made no attempt at making a point about parenting. The post I replied to said they wanted to have children for the experience and because their "body was designed to", essentially. The latter is just an appeal to nature. We can choose whether or not to procreate. Rather, I made the point that I'd love to ask just one parent why they chose to have a child and have the answer not start w/ "Because I wanted..."
  - kubanczyk 6y ago
    Look at what is happening and you see real data and most of the times it makes a lot of sense. Hear people talk about it, explaining their "reasons" and it's suddenly all gibberish.
  - troupe 6y ago
    Doesn't any question that starts with "why did you choose to do X" expect an answer that starts with "Because I wanted..."? It is the part that comes after that matters. "Because I wanted someone else to experience the joy I experience every day" is a very different answer than "Because I needed someone to make me feel like I'm important."
majkinetor 6y ago
> you relish the thought of being less self-centered. Just mentioned one example really... > I'm curious if you're able to think of one non-selfish reason to have children? I am curious if you are able to think on non-selfish anything? > Often, it's said having a child is an act of selflessness Nonsence. It is what it is. Anything you say that is not gonig to explain animal and other forms or life is invalid. > Adopting a child is the most selfless thing you can do Compensation, so no. > The OP's blog post is surmising it's because we procreate to achieve some tangible sense of immortality He said people usually say that, not that it is a sole reason. He also said there isn't any rational explanation. I just given one - I am designed to do so.

slibhb 6y ago

> I'm curious if you're able to think of one non-selfish reason to have childrena? I enjoy being alive and experiencing things. I think this is true for most people. Therefore having children is moral.

KronisLV 6y ago
But being brought into this world and knowing that one day your life is most likely going to end and that there's almost nothing that you can feasibly do to avoid it can easily balance out the positive aspects of being alive. Personally, after often experiencing such existential dread and finding that it impacts my life in a pretty negative way, i've largely switched over to the nihilism school of thought. Then, it can be argued that bringing children into this world just to doom them to a similar fate would be pretty immoral.
- pixl97 6y ago
  The immorality of it is irrelevant. People that feel it is moral will have children, people that feel it is immoral will not. Unless you also want to commit an act that I believe is immoral, and prevent others from having children.
  - KronisLV 6y ago
    > Unless you also want to commit an act that I believe is immoral, and prevent others from having children. I want no such thing, merely offering my differing point of view here. It probably doesn't have relevance or any sort of impact in the lives of most people, but claiming that having children is universally moral could be challenged at the very least. If nothing else, each child is another mouth to feed and will contribute to the carbon footprint of our species. While the planet could sustain more people on it, in our current climate of consumerism, i personally don't believe that the world needs to strive towards overpopulation and accelerated exhaustion of the resources that we have (amongst other things).
- runsWphotons 6y ago
  One might respond to this challenge by developing a tradition for guiding children away from nihilism.
- slibhb 6y ago
  But do you think most people agree with you? It's clear that most people are happy to be alive. So even if you personally don't like being alive, having children is moral. I can imagine a world where having children wouldn't be moral. It would be a world in which most people hated being alive. We don't appear to live in that world.

kubanczyk 6y ago

You've turned a parent's very minor point (literally only mentioned in parentheses!) into a mountain bigger than Mount Everest. That says a lot about you, but not much about parenting.

causasui 6y ago
I made no attempt at making a point about parenting. The post I replied to said they wanted to have children for the experience and because their "body was designed to", essentially. The latter is just an appeal to nature. We can choose whether or not to procreate. Rather, I made the point that I'd love to ask just one parent why they chose to have a child and have the answer not start w/ "Because I wanted..."
- kubanczyk 6y ago
  Look at what is happening and you see real data and most of the times it makes a lot of sense. Hear people talk about it, explaining their "reasons" and it's suddenly all gibberish.
- troupe 6y ago
  Doesn't any question that starts with "why did you choose to do X" expect an answer that starts with "Because I wanted..."? It is the part that comes after that matters. "Because I wanted someone else to experience the joy I experience every day" is a very different answer than "Because I needed someone to make me feel like I'm important."

majkinetor 6y ago

> you relish the thought of being less self-centered. Just mentioned one example really... > I'm curious if you're able to think of one non-selfish reason to have children? I am curious if you are able to think on non-selfish anything? > Often, it's said having a child is an act of selflessness Nonsence. It is what it is. Anything you say that is not gonig to explain animal and other forms or life is invalid. > Adopting a child is the most selfless thing you can do Compensation, so no. > The OP's blog post is surmising it's because we procreate to achieve some tangible sense of immortality He said people usually say that, not that it is a sole reason. He also said there isn't any rational explanation. I just given one - I am designed to do so.