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I remember a time when everything was paper bags. Groceries and retailers went with plastic because it was cheaper. But with plastic there was a hidden cost.
by rmason 6y ago
I remember a time when everything was paper bags. Groceries and retailers went with plastic because it was cheaper. But with plastic there was a hidden cost.
Now we're told we must pay a premium for recyclable plastic. Personally I'd rather pay a premium for paper because it's made from a renewable resource. Plus paper will decompose within two months in nature.
The only drawback I can find is that paper bags take more water to produce than plastic. Sitting in a Great Lakes state that problem doesn't bother me.
- JulianMorrison 6y agoPaper bags also turn to mush and spill your groceries when wet.
- rmason 6y agoApparently you've never had a plastic bag break dumping your groceries on the ground. Try chasing rolling bottles of pop going under cars when it's below zero out. Never had that happen with a paper bag.
- JulianMorrison 6y agoI've had both break. Plastic bags tear when overloaded or structurally unsound. Previously sound paper bags become structurally unsound when soaked, and it doesn't take much wet to soak them. (And unhelpfully, the things that could make a paper bag waterproof also make it non biodegradable).
- ramraj07 6y agoAlso not everything can be paper. A coffee cup can never be fully paper, it needs a plastic lining and can thus never be recyclable. Not without it being extremely crappy. No food item can be enclosed in a fully paper enclosure and expected to have a shelf life. And for all the Portlanders saving a plastic bag there's a Texan buying all their drinking water as pallets of disposable single use plastic bottles. I think we should just take the japan route - use plastic, try your best to be judicious and then just incinerate it.
- astrange 6y agoI'm not sure Japan is good at plastic use. Practically everything is wrapped in 3 different layers for style points. Japan's electricity is also so coal-based that using Japanese factories is starting to violate US companies' clean energy rules. https://www.ft.com/content/bbd59494-ac64-4dda-8da5-a2990d8936d3 https://www.ft.com/content/bbd59494-ac64-4dda-8da5-a2990d893...
- mssundaram 6y ago> Also not everything can be paper. A coffee cup can never be fully paper, it needs a plastic lining and can thus never be recyclable There are bioplatic liners for paper coffee cups that allow them to be fully compostable, though. I have sitting next to me one made from the World Centric brand that uses the "Ingeo PLA" for the liner, and I compost these cups in my backyard. I only use them when it's inconvenient to not use a regular mug.
- nicoburns 6y agoCoffee cups should just be reusable. Forgotten to bring your reusable cup? Then tough, don't get a coffee (or drink it at the cafe).
- JulianMorrison 6y agoThe solution, bags-wise, is reusable bags. I carry around several of the convenient, pack-into-a-ball variety. They're plastic, but they'll last me many many uses. When they eventually wear out, they should probably be incinerated. But in the meantime, I'm using plastic's advantage, it's long life, in my favour - rather than having it haunt me as waste.
- Semaphor 6y agoCloth bags are even better. I can put them into the washing machine if they are dirty, they can be easily stored and so far (I have and use some of both types that are over 10 years old) none of them degraded.
- KozmoNau7 6y agoThe newest of the two canvas shopping bags I use is over 10 years old, the other I inherited from my grandpa, that one may be older than I am. Both are good sturdy canvas and can easily be patched and repaired by anyone with basic sewing skills, some thread and a scrap of additional fabric. Between those two bags and a military surplus canvas shoulder bag, I can take care of 99% of my shopping on foot or by bicycle (baskets and panniers are wonderful inventions), and I haven't had to buy a plastic bag in years.
- madacol 6y agoWill you reuse it a thousand times?. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/grocery-bag-environmental-impact https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/grocery-bag-environmental...
- Semaphor 6y agoInteresting link (even though they kinda fucked up their description, luckily the source is linked), thanks. I obviously will not, but then I can get neither the plastic nor the cloth bags anymore, only unbleached paper.
- globular-toast 6y agoSingle use bags are always stupid. You can get bags or boxes that can be used hundreds of times before they need to be replaced.
- madacol 6y agohttps://ourworldindata.org/grapher/grocery-bag-environmental-impact https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/grocery-bag-environmental... TL;DR # Reuses needed to break-even with standard single-use plastic bag (LDPE;Low-density polyethylene) Organic cotton - 20,000 reuses Conventional cotton - 7,100 reuses Composite - 870 reuses Recycled PET - 84 reuses Polypropylene, non-woven, recycled - 52 reuses Polypropylene, woven, recycled - 45 reuses Unbleached paper - 43 reuses Bleached paper - 43 reuses Biopolymer - 42 reuses Polyester PET, recycled - 35 reuses
- madacol 6y agohttps://ourworldindata.org/grapher/grocery-bag-environmental-impact https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/grocery-bag-environmental... TL;DR # Reuses needed to break-even with standard single-use plastic bag (LDPE;Low-density polyethylene) Organic cotton - 20,000 reuses Conventional cotton - 7,100 reuses Composite - 870 reuses Recycled PET - 84 reuses Polypropylene, non-woven, recycled - 52 reuses Polypropylene, woven, recycled - 45 reuses Unbleached paper - 43 reuses Bleached paper - 43 reuses Biopolymer - 42 reuses Polyester PET, recycled - 35 reuses