4 ms·

Reading this reminded me of of big reason that I really like Slate Star Codex: When Scott disagrees with someone, he describes that person's opinions fairly. S

by Arnt 6y ago

Reading this reminded me of of big reason that I really like Slate Star Codex: When Scott disagrees with someone, he describes that person's opinions fairly. Scott would summarise David Duke's writing in such a way that David Duke himself would say that's a fair summary, and only then disagree. Maybe that's being "rather more receptive to neo-nazi rhetoric" to quote that eruditorumpress page, and maybe it is. Maybe today's etiquette is best regarded as that which most people to doday. So when Scott doesn't misquote or put strawmen into anyone's mouths, he's just out of touch. A few lines down from the "rather more" quote is a statement that Scott "is someone who […] openly advocates eugenics." He is? I hadn't noticed. Scott would have inserted quotations to support such statement. Which may be out of touch and may make him seem receptive &c, but I like it.

WaltGisnep 6y ago
Ironically, you haven't actually fairly described or interacted with the points of this person you disagree with. And you even quoted them out of context to misrepresent them as not providing quotations of Scott openly advocating eugenics, when they did exactly that just a few paragraphs after the line you quote.
- Arnt 6y ago
  Well, I'm sorry if the quotations are misleading. I find it difficult to insert long quotations on HN, while making them look like quotations. So I tried to pick good, representative but short ones. Could you show me how you would do it? Post something and insert long enough quotations (from the part I partly quoted) that they are fair and representative, and still clearly look like quotations?
  - WaltGisnep 6y ago
    Asking me to show you seems like a troll question
    - Arnt 6y ago
      I know. It's an honest question though. Look at my blog and see how trollish I am, if you want. I wonder whether the difficulty of quoting extensively contributes to the sometimes too polarised tone on HN. As far as I can tell it's ~impossible to do civilised things like quoting two paragraphs, emphasising the key parts and appending "emphasis mine". Try it, and IME people will be unable to tell the quoted parts from your own. It's a magnet for misunderstandig due to lack of markup. The best I've been able to do is to keep quotations down to a line or a little more than that, so that both quotation marks are clearly visible at the same time. But that shortness opens the quotation to people saying "taken out of context", no matter how much I try to pick fairly. "The best that I've been able to do" ≠ "the best that can be done".
pvg 6y ago
that David Duke himself would say that's a fair summary That's an interesting choice, given that both Duke and Alexander have a history of obfuscating their real intentions and beliefs. Giving a racist neo-Nazi like Duke a 'fair summary' is not the neutral approach you seem to think it is.

by Arnt 6y ago

WaltGisnep 6y ago

Ironically, you haven't actually fairly described or interacted with the points of this person you disagree with. And you even quoted them out of context to misrepresent them as not providing quotations of Scott openly advocating eugenics, when they did exactly that just a few paragraphs after the line you quote.

Arnt 6y ago
Well, I'm sorry if the quotations are misleading. I find it difficult to insert long quotations on HN, while making them look like quotations. So I tried to pick good, representative but short ones. Could you show me how you would do it? Post something and insert long enough quotations (from the part I partly quoted) that they are fair and representative, and still clearly look like quotations?
- WaltGisnep 6y ago
  Asking me to show you seems like a troll question
  - Arnt 6y ago
    I know. It's an honest question though. Look at my blog and see how trollish I am, if you want. I wonder whether the difficulty of quoting extensively contributes to the sometimes too polarised tone on HN. As far as I can tell it's ~impossible to do civilised things like quoting two paragraphs, emphasising the key parts and appending "emphasis mine". Try it, and IME people will be unable to tell the quoted parts from your own. It's a magnet for misunderstandig due to lack of markup. The best I've been able to do is to keep quotations down to a line or a little more than that, so that both quotation marks are clearly visible at the same time. But that shortness opens the quotation to people saying "taken out of context", no matter how much I try to pick fairly. "The best that I've been able to do" ≠ "the best that can be done".

pvg 6y ago

that David Duke himself would say that's a fair summary That's an interesting choice, given that both Duke and Alexander have a history of obfuscating their real intentions and beliefs. Giving a racist neo-Nazi like Duke a 'fair summary' is not the neutral approach you seem to think it is.