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90% of ocean plastic comes from Asia and Africa: http://odinafrica.org/about-us/news/217-90-percent-of-ocean-plastic-waste-comes-from-asia-and-africa.html#:~:t

90% of ocean plastic comes from Asia and Africa: http://odinafrica.org/about-us/news/217-90-percent-of-ocean-plastic-waste-comes-from-asia-and-africa.html#:~:text=News%20and%20Updates-,90%20percent%20of%20ocean%20plastic%20waste%20comes%20from%20Asia%20and,rivers%20in%20Asia%20and%20Africa http://odinafrica.org/about-us/news/217-90-percent-of-ocean-.... We need to prohibit Western companies from packaging food and FMCG for the developing world in plastic - until both the disposal infrastructure and societal attitudes around pollution and environmental management change. Or, charge those polluters to build that infrastructure or change those attitudes. Here are the biggest polluters: CocaCola (USA) PepsiCo (USA) Nestle (Switzerland) Unilever (UK) Mondelez (USA) Mars (USA) P&G (USA) Phillip Morris (USA) Colgate-Palmolive (USA) Perfetti van Melle (Italy) https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coca-cola-pepsico-and-nestle-top-10-worst-plastic-polluters-of-2020-11607465840#:~:text=Coca%2DCola%2C%20PepsiCo%20and%20Nestl%C3%A9%20top%20a%20list%20of%20the,was%20ranked%20the%20world's%20No https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coca-cola-pepsico-and-nest.... I would suggest that a targeted protest and political lobbying campaign against the headquarters of those companies would be more effective than any individual effort to clean up plastic pollution.

radicalbyte 6y ago
A lot of that plastic is shipped in from USA/EU.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  Why would they buy plastic and throw it in the river? The US has plenty of landfill space, we aren't paying to ship plastic to Asia.
  - xyzzy123 6y ago
    Bulk shipping to asia in particular is very cheap due to the volume of empty containers going in that direction. Not sure about other places. Countries that recycle plastic have people pick out the good bits cheaply in hellish facilities, profit off selling the high grade recycling, the rest is "waste waste" to be gotten rid of somehow. Dumping it in the ocean is quite cheap. The sorted plastic used to be a thing that you could mix with virgin plastic to get a cheaper product. Since China's waste import bans, I believe it's actually more expensive than virgin plastic, partly because it costs more to produce now and partly because demand is driven by manufacturers who want to have a certain % recycled plastic in their product for marketing reasons. The higher price incentivises other countries to import and process mixed plastic waste instead. They of course will also have to find a way to get rid of the not-useful portions of mixed plastic waste.
    - maxerickson 6y ago
      In the US, dumping stuff in the nearest landfill is pretty likely to be cheaper than dumping it in the ocean. Especially if the landfill is operating the recycling sort (the case here and many other smaller counties). (This addresses your second paragraph; if they are selling the high grade and putting the rest in the landfill...)
      - xyzzy123 6y ago
        The first reason it's hard to just landfill it is optics. Local government asked people to sort their trash, made a big deal about it. And it's a scandal when people find out of course it's just being buried with the rest of the stuff. Recyclers were able to do two things; a) play a shell game which diverts the waste in an opaque, hopefully deniable way and b) deal with the waste more cheaply than landfilling it. They did this by exporting it, and all the externalities. I mean, your argument is good but I feel it's contradicted by reality in a sense; megatons of waste plastic were being sent to China before the import ban. You have to pay to put stuff in landfill, whereas the recyclers were paying _you_ to take the waste. I think you might also be surprised by the cost of landfill. Sure, there's plenty of space, but there's not as much government approved, environmentally audited space as you might want - that won't leach into the water table, has good geography, neighbours who won't NIMBY it, no rare frogs that live there etc. Obviously it all needs ISO 27000 management, union labour and regular safety and environmental audits. Caring about none of the above is how Chinese waste entrepreneurs could take mixed plastic from 1/2 way around the world and make a profit out of it, instead of losing money putting it into the ground. Their margins are slim and they have to pay for landfill too (much less of course), so dumping it in the ocean or similar saves money unless they get caught. (For what it's worth I do agree that putting it in the ground might be the best thing to do, i.e, cheapest considering all externalities, and local government should just be transparent about what actually happens to your recycling).
        maxerickson 6y ago
        I've literally been in the local facility that sorts recycling, they do a good job of sorting clean stuff by type and throw everything else away, into the landfill where it is located. Should I not believe my lying eyes? So someone pays to haul stuff away on trucks and I'm supposed to believe that they are dumping that stuff in the ocean for some reason. Or shipping it to China and then dumping it in the ocean.
ClumsyPilot 6y ago
That's only because we were sending plastics to them to 'reprocess', and when those countries banned it, we were dumping it there illegally: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/29/malaysia-to-send-up-to-100-tonnes-of-plastic-waste-back-to-australia https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/29/malaysia-to-se...
- maxerickson 6y ago
  My recycling is sorted on site at the county dump, with rejected stuff disposed of in the dump. No way are the bundles of material they sell being shipped to Asia for disposal, it doesn't make any sense at all. That article is about the countries raising their standards for the sorted material they accept, not about the typical journey that Australian waste takes. Just think about what a non existent amount of material 100 tonnes is for a country of 25 million people. Millions of tons of waste a year just in NSW: https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/what-sydney-is-really-throwing-in-the-rubbish-20190812-p52gae.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/what-sydney-is-really-th...
  - dEnigma 6y ago
    Yes, 100 tonnes is nothing at this scale. The company I work for, a small-ish waste paper recycler, deals with about 15000 tonnes a month.

radicalbyte 6y ago

A lot of that plastic is shipped in from USA/EU.

maxerickson 6y ago
Why would they buy plastic and throw it in the river? The US has plenty of landfill space, we aren't paying to ship plastic to Asia.
- xyzzy123 6y ago
  Bulk shipping to asia in particular is very cheap due to the volume of empty containers going in that direction. Not sure about other places. Countries that recycle plastic have people pick out the good bits cheaply in hellish facilities, profit off selling the high grade recycling, the rest is "waste waste" to be gotten rid of somehow. Dumping it in the ocean is quite cheap. The sorted plastic used to be a thing that you could mix with virgin plastic to get a cheaper product. Since China's waste import bans, I believe it's actually more expensive than virgin plastic, partly because it costs more to produce now and partly because demand is driven by manufacturers who want to have a certain % recycled plastic in their product for marketing reasons. The higher price incentivises other countries to import and process mixed plastic waste instead. They of course will also have to find a way to get rid of the not-useful portions of mixed plastic waste.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    In the US, dumping stuff in the nearest landfill is pretty likely to be cheaper than dumping it in the ocean. Especially if the landfill is operating the recycling sort (the case here and many other smaller counties). (This addresses your second paragraph; if they are selling the high grade and putting the rest in the landfill...)
    - xyzzy123 6y ago
      The first reason it's hard to just landfill it is optics. Local government asked people to sort their trash, made a big deal about it. And it's a scandal when people find out of course it's just being buried with the rest of the stuff. Recyclers were able to do two things; a) play a shell game which diverts the waste in an opaque, hopefully deniable way and b) deal with the waste more cheaply than landfilling it. They did this by exporting it, and all the externalities. I mean, your argument is good but I feel it's contradicted by reality in a sense; megatons of waste plastic were being sent to China before the import ban. You have to pay to put stuff in landfill, whereas the recyclers were paying _you_ to take the waste. I think you might also be surprised by the cost of landfill. Sure, there's plenty of space, but there's not as much government approved, environmentally audited space as you might want - that won't leach into the water table, has good geography, neighbours who won't NIMBY it, no rare frogs that live there etc. Obviously it all needs ISO 27000 management, union labour and regular safety and environmental audits. Caring about none of the above is how Chinese waste entrepreneurs could take mixed plastic from 1/2 way around the world and make a profit out of it, instead of losing money putting it into the ground. Their margins are slim and they have to pay for landfill too (much less of course), so dumping it in the ocean or similar saves money unless they get caught. (For what it's worth I do agree that putting it in the ground might be the best thing to do, i.e, cheapest considering all externalities, and local government should just be transparent about what actually happens to your recycling).
      - maxerickson 6y ago
        I've literally been in the local facility that sorts recycling, they do a good job of sorting clean stuff by type and throw everything else away, into the landfill where it is located. Should I not believe my lying eyes? So someone pays to haul stuff away on trucks and I'm supposed to believe that they are dumping that stuff in the ocean for some reason. Or shipping it to China and then dumping it in the ocean.

ClumsyPilot 6y ago

That's only because we were sending plastics to them to 'reprocess', and when those countries banned it, we were dumping it there illegally: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/29/malaysia-to-send-up-to-100-tonnes-of-plastic-waste-back-to-australia https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/29/malaysia-to-se...

maxerickson 6y ago
My recycling is sorted on site at the county dump, with rejected stuff disposed of in the dump. No way are the bundles of material they sell being shipped to Asia for disposal, it doesn't make any sense at all. That article is about the countries raising their standards for the sorted material they accept, not about the typical journey that Australian waste takes. Just think about what a non existent amount of material 100 tonnes is for a country of 25 million people. Millions of tons of waste a year just in NSW: https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/what-sydney-is-really-throwing-in-the-rubbish-20190812-p52gae.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/what-sydney-is-really-th...
- dEnigma 6y ago
  Yes, 100 tonnes is nothing at this scale. The company I work for, a small-ish waste paper recycler, deals with about 15000 tonnes a month.