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> The oral tradition of vedic learning has preserved the entire vedic texts by purely human memory for several generations. This in an enormous accomplishment g

> The oral tradition of vedic learning has preserved the entire vedic texts by purely human memory for several generations. This in an enormous accomplishment given the vast corpus of text preserved without any errors creeping in.This has been made possible by a diligently devised systematic scheme of chanting the vedic corpus. A system of chanting for memory has been used since pre-history across many cultures. See for example Greek epic poetry, Hebrew Scripture, Arabic Koran, Anglo-Saxon Beowulf, Viking sagas. In ptr-literate societies, bards were able to memorize huge amounts of information and recite to their listeners. Much of the poetry with its rhyme/meter/repetition was written that way to aid in memorization. That sort of memorization got a lot less as literacy grew and people could just read stuff for themselves, but it was pretty widespread and certainly not something unique to the Vedic tradition.

duskwuff 6y ago
> This in an enormous accomplishment given the vast corpus of text preserved without any errors creeping in. This bit is particularly questionable. It's unproveable -- if a text was only transmitted orally, there's no way to compare its modern form to an older version -- and it's probably wrong. The short-range memorization techniques described in the article don't guard against larger-scale errors in memorization, like omitting a "chapter" of a text, nor do they prevent single-word changes, like a student mishearing a word for another similar-sounding word.
- priyadarshy 6y ago
  I disagree, since it was spread orally and these texts were widespread in the subcontinent you could measure the similarity in different current renditions. If you looked at enough people's renderings you could even get a sense of how the transmission corrupts over time.
- hawk_ 6y ago
  apparently brahmins in different parts of India, speaking different languages, from different schools, separated for generations recite these texts identically. while it doesn't prove anything it's plausible that due to these techniques and processes that have been able to preserve these texts verbatim.
- KorematsuFred 6y ago
  I disagree. The key difference is here is that language sanskrit is unlike any other languages in the world. Somewhere during 400 BC. a grammarian named Panini formalized Sanskrit grammar as precise, formally defined 4200 rules. This book called `Ashtadhyayi` or 18 chapters was an exhaustive book of Sanskrit grammar and remains so even today. Panini defined a meta language to define Sanskrit grammar. What this meant was that language stopped evolving since last 2400 years ago. You can create new words but there are precise rules for it. All this means there is no scope for "dialects", words meanings changing with geography etc. Different vedic chants separated by thousands of miles and 1000 years in time are exactly the same and perfectly understandable in any part of the country for anyone who has studied Sanskrit. This makes Vedic chants unlike anything English, Latin or Arabic has to offer.
  - bivargen 6y ago
    While what you say is true for Sanskrit is true, that Sanskrit is in a way fixed, it doesn't mean Sanskrit stopped evolving, it has certainly evolved since the time of Panini, just evolved in a way that doesn't break the rules set up by Panini. That however is a topic for another discussion as the vedas aren't composed in Paninian Sanskrit. As for the vedas, specifically Rigveda (which is the only one I can comment on with some expertise) we have what we can call different recensions of the text. These texts, independently transmitted, differ very little from each other. This fact alone strongly indicate that even while they've been orally transmitted for many generations, they are more or less uncorrupted by the act of transmission. Much more could be written on this subject (and has been). However, english isn't my native language, it is late and this comment could go on and on…short story is: memorization and oral transmission seems to work!
    - KorematsuFred 6y ago
      > it has certainly evolved since the time of Panini, just evolved in a way that doesn't break the rules set up by Panini. This is important. This constraint alone helps oral traditions a great deal.
  - wl 6y ago
- nelsonmandela 6y ago
  There is error correction built in to the chants. Really advanced stuff, but I expect nothing less from those who authored the vedas. https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/9517/procedures-used-for-preserving-the-integrity-of-the-vedas https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/9517/procedures...
  - duskwuff 6y ago
    I'm dubious of the claims made on that page. "Divisional protection" appears to simply be stating that the Vedas are divided into sections. This doesn't provide any form of error correction; it's simply a means of organization. "Meter protection" states that the Vedas consist of metrical verse. This provides a limited level of protection against certain types of errors (like inserted or deleted words), but not against larger changes. "Swara protection" and "Mudra protection" state that the chants are tonal, and that those tones are associated with particular gestures. I'm not sure what protection this is meant to provide. "Patha protection" is a restatement of the same memorization technique described in the OP.
- earthboundkid 6y ago
  You compare different lineages and use standard linguistic techniques for detecting language change. It’s not perfect, but with long texts you end up doing the same thing because it’s rare for written things to last more than a couple of hundred years without extremely good luck and often it takes just that long for a text to become popular enough for there to be enough copies for you to find and compare.

duskwuff 6y ago

> This in an enormous accomplishment given the vast corpus of text preserved without any errors creeping in. This bit is particularly questionable. It's unproveable -- if a text was only transmitted orally, there's no way to compare its modern form to an older version -- and it's probably wrong. The short-range memorization techniques described in the article don't guard against larger-scale errors in memorization, like omitting a "chapter" of a text, nor do they prevent single-word changes, like a student mishearing a word for another similar-sounding word.

priyadarshy 6y ago
I disagree, since it was spread orally and these texts were widespread in the subcontinent you could measure the similarity in different current renditions. If you looked at enough people's renderings you could even get a sense of how the transmission corrupts over time.
hawk_ 6y ago
apparently brahmins in different parts of India, speaking different languages, from different schools, separated for generations recite these texts identically. while it doesn't prove anything it's plausible that due to these techniques and processes that have been able to preserve these texts verbatim.
KorematsuFred 6y ago
I disagree. The key difference is here is that language sanskrit is unlike any other languages in the world. Somewhere during 400 BC. a grammarian named Panini formalized Sanskrit grammar as precise, formally defined 4200 rules. This book called `Ashtadhyayi` or 18 chapters was an exhaustive book of Sanskrit grammar and remains so even today. Panini defined a meta language to define Sanskrit grammar. What this meant was that language stopped evolving since last 2400 years ago. You can create new words but there are precise rules for it. All this means there is no scope for "dialects", words meanings changing with geography etc. Different vedic chants separated by thousands of miles and 1000 years in time are exactly the same and perfectly understandable in any part of the country for anyone who has studied Sanskrit. This makes Vedic chants unlike anything English, Latin or Arabic has to offer.
- bivargen 6y ago
  While what you say is true for Sanskrit is true, that Sanskrit is in a way fixed, it doesn't mean Sanskrit stopped evolving, it has certainly evolved since the time of Panini, just evolved in a way that doesn't break the rules set up by Panini. That however is a topic for another discussion as the vedas aren't composed in Paninian Sanskrit. As for the vedas, specifically Rigveda (which is the only one I can comment on with some expertise) we have what we can call different recensions of the text. These texts, independently transmitted, differ very little from each other. This fact alone strongly indicate that even while they've been orally transmitted for many generations, they are more or less uncorrupted by the act of transmission. Much more could be written on this subject (and has been). However, english isn't my native language, it is late and this comment could go on and on…short story is: memorization and oral transmission seems to work!
  - KorematsuFred 6y ago
    > it has certainly evolved since the time of Panini, just evolved in a way that doesn't break the rules set up by Panini. This is important. This constraint alone helps oral traditions a great deal.
- wl 6y ago
nelsonmandela 6y ago
There is error correction built in to the chants. Really advanced stuff, but I expect nothing less from those who authored the vedas. https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/9517/procedures-used-for-preserving-the-integrity-of-the-vedas https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/9517/procedures...
- duskwuff 6y ago
  I'm dubious of the claims made on that page. "Divisional protection" appears to simply be stating that the Vedas are divided into sections. This doesn't provide any form of error correction; it's simply a means of organization. "Meter protection" states that the Vedas consist of metrical verse. This provides a limited level of protection against certain types of errors (like inserted or deleted words), but not against larger changes. "Swara protection" and "Mudra protection" state that the chants are tonal, and that those tones are associated with particular gestures. I'm not sure what protection this is meant to provide. "Patha protection" is a restatement of the same memorization technique described in the OP.
earthboundkid 6y ago
You compare different lineages and use standard linguistic techniques for detecting language change. It’s not perfect, but with long texts you end up doing the same thing because it’s rare for written things to last more than a couple of hundred years without extremely good luck and often it takes just that long for a text to become popular enough for there to be enough copies for you to find and compare.