4 ms·

I dont really understand the point of this article. Literally any system can be made romantic for the sheer fact that everything has spent hundreds of man-hours

I dont really understand the point of this article. Literally any system can be made romantic for the sheer fact that everything has spent hundreds of man-hours building up to it. The cheapest possible ballpoint pen is made up of years of research into the plastics, the machinery required to create bearings with the tolerances necessary, the exact chemical makeup of the ink etc etc. It just seems to be a waste of brain-space to bother with making everything romantic.

olav 6y ago
It becomes rather interesting in my mind the moment you think about when the thing no longer exists. We loose so many things all the time, the ability to make stuff, the ability to repair things, even the use of drills and hammers quickly fades away for the TikTok generation. I love the notion of the OP and applaud initiatives like the various Smalltalks or https://gpblocks.org/ https://gpblocks.org/ that try to keep the awe in our craft alive.
- mb7733 6y ago
  You think that young people don't use hammers?
  - ZephyrBlu 6y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised if most Gen Z people had never picked up a hammer in their life (Speaking as a Gen Z myself).
    - mb7733 6y ago
      I'm missing something here. Why would hammer use be declining?
      - ZephyrBlu 6y ago
        People used to do things a lot more (Not limited to using a hammer). Now, they tend to stay on their phones/computers.
        saagarjha 6y ago
        Do young people not buy IKEA furniture?
        ZephyrBlu 6y ago
        No idea. IKEA doesn't exist in my country.
typest 6y ago
Yes, the construction of a ballpoint pen could be made romantic. But I mean...it's pretty incredible how many humans collaborate to produce the ballpoint pen, millions of individuals cooperating in countless ways, producing an essential implement which is greater than the sum of its parts. No one involved could tell you exactly how the pen is made, and yet it's sold at a price so low we never think about it. There is a famous essay "I, Pencil" that details, and indeed romanticizes, this exact process. You could cynically state that all aspects of civilization are incredible, so therefore nothing is. Or you could back up and marvel at the fact that out of nothing came something, out of an unthinking universe came self aware humans that literally took rocks out of the ground and reconstructed them so that they would think for us, and that we then used those thinking-rocks to cure diseases, enable near-instantaneous communication anywhere in the world, and literally launch people off this planet. I would advise you to try thinking in the latter style, as life is more fun that way.
- eigenhombre 6y ago
  An upside of programming is that you can build something useful, by yourself. Some of my favorite programs are ones I wrote and use every day. They're not amazing programs, but they do the job and they did not exist before I wrote them. I wonder if a home-created ballpoint pen, that worked well, wouldn't feel a bit more magical or romantic than the one you get for free at the hotel or bank. Having made, for example, my own paint, prior to use, I can attest that doing so feels "magical" in a similar way that programming does.
  - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
    The Ikea effect[1]. People do value things they built themselves, even if the building part only requires an allen key. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect
- ianmcgowan 6y ago
  Sometimes it makes me dizzy - you pick up some ordinary thing, and suddenly marvel at all the people, all the work and effort, that goes into making the most mundane things. Odes to Common Things is a reminder of how amazing the universe is - the natural and the things we create. “A book, a book full of human touches, of shirts, a book without loneliness, with men and tools, a book is victory.” ― Pablo Neruda, Odes to Common Things
yesenadam 6y ago
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is."
elliottkember 6y ago
> It just seems to be a waste of brain-space to bother with making everything romantic. Is dancing is a waste of energy?
- NikolaeVarius 6y ago
  For me, yes complete waste of time and energy

olav 6y ago

It becomes rather interesting in my mind the moment you think about when the thing no longer exists. We loose so many things all the time, the ability to make stuff, the ability to repair things, even the use of drills and hammers quickly fades away for the TikTok generation. I love the notion of the OP and applaud initiatives like the various Smalltalks or https://gpblocks.org/ https://gpblocks.org/ that try to keep the awe in our craft alive.

mb7733 6y ago
You think that young people don't use hammers?
- ZephyrBlu 6y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if most Gen Z people had never picked up a hammer in their life (Speaking as a Gen Z myself).
  - mb7733 6y ago
    I'm missing something here. Why would hammer use be declining?
    - ZephyrBlu 6y ago
      People used to do things a lot more (Not limited to using a hammer). Now, they tend to stay on their phones/computers.
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        Do young people not buy IKEA furniture?
        ZephyrBlu 6y ago
        No idea. IKEA doesn't exist in my country.

typest 6y ago

Yes, the construction of a ballpoint pen could be made romantic. But I mean...it's pretty incredible how many humans collaborate to produce the ballpoint pen, millions of individuals cooperating in countless ways, producing an essential implement which is greater than the sum of its parts. No one involved could tell you exactly how the pen is made, and yet it's sold at a price so low we never think about it. There is a famous essay "I, Pencil" that details, and indeed romanticizes, this exact process. You could cynically state that all aspects of civilization are incredible, so therefore nothing is. Or you could back up and marvel at the fact that out of nothing came something, out of an unthinking universe came self aware humans that literally took rocks out of the ground and reconstructed them so that they would think for us, and that we then used those thinking-rocks to cure diseases, enable near-instantaneous communication anywhere in the world, and literally launch people off this planet. I would advise you to try thinking in the latter style, as life is more fun that way.

eigenhombre 6y ago
An upside of programming is that you can build something useful, by yourself. Some of my favorite programs are ones I wrote and use every day. They're not amazing programs, but they do the job and they did not exist before I wrote them. I wonder if a home-created ballpoint pen, that worked well, wouldn't feel a bit more magical or romantic than the one you get for free at the hotel or bank. Having made, for example, my own paint, prior to use, I can attest that doing so feels "magical" in a similar way that programming does.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  The Ikea effect[1]. People do value things they built themselves, even if the building part only requires an allen key. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect
ianmcgowan 6y ago
Sometimes it makes me dizzy - you pick up some ordinary thing, and suddenly marvel at all the people, all the work and effort, that goes into making the most mundane things. Odes to Common Things is a reminder of how amazing the universe is - the natural and the things we create. “A book, a book full of human touches, of shirts, a book without loneliness, with men and tools, a book is victory.” ― Pablo Neruda, Odes to Common Things

yesenadam 6y ago

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is."

elliottkember 6y ago

> It just seems to be a waste of brain-space to bother with making everything romantic. Is dancing is a waste of energy?

NikolaeVarius 6y ago
For me, yes complete waste of time and energy