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Most people in America didn't know about the Venera program, including me who was at the peak of my adolescent interest in "space stuff" at the time. I don't kn

Most people in America didn't know about the Venera program, including me who was at the peak of my adolescent interest in "space stuff" at the time. I don't know whether to blame it on Russia's tendency not to publicize failed missions, or an American tendency to ignore or suppress news of successful Russian ones. So I just blame it generically on "Cold War bullshit" and figure I'm covered either way.

01100011 6y ago
Last night I was talking to a mechanical engineer friend who worked at JPL and he didn't know about the Venera program! I like to bring up Venus whenever Mars is in the news. It's so much more interesting to me than the tiny, dark dust bowl we keep probing.
- basementcat 6y ago
  Not everyone at JPL knows about every single space mission anyone has ever launched. Not everyone at Apple has the OSX syscall table memorized. Not everyone at Exxon knows about every single oil field.
  - Teever 6y ago
    I don't think that's the right way to look at it. It's more like Apple OS developers not knowing about real-time operating systems or Exxon employees not knowing about off-shore drilling rigs. There's stuff you should just know about if you're in a field even if you're not familiar with it or an expert in it.
- elihu 6y ago
  In a sense, Mars is interesting just because it's boring. As in, compared to the other planets besides Earth it's perhaps the most benign environment for humans to possibly settle. Settling Venus is also possible, but it's less accessible due to the Earth-like gravity well, and it's easier to imagine humans living relatively comfortably and self-sufficiently in a Martian Hobbit hole than on giant zeppelins in the atmosphere of Venus. Venus is more mysterious simply because it's harder to see surface features under that atmosphere and the conditions on the surface are very strange and hard to imagine.
aero-glide2 6y ago
They even deployed balloons in Venusian atmosphere back in the 80s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vega_program#Balloon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vega_program#Balloon
throwawayboise 6y ago
Sounds like I'm about your age. I remember Venera being in the news and discussed at school in physics class (teacher was a bit of a "space" enthusiast). It definitely did not get the media attention that NASA missions got, but it seems likely that news of NASA missions didn't get much play in the USSR either. Cold war was still on, as you say.
29athrowaway 6y ago
The Venera program was profoundly significant: 1965: First landing on another planet (crash) 1967: First spacecraft to transmit data from another planet's atmosphere. 1970: First spacecraft to transmit data from another planet's surface. It's amazing they did all this in the 60s and 70s.
- nemo44x 6y ago
  We had commercial supersonic passenger flight in the mid-70’s. We don’t today. But we do have more affordable commercial flight I suppose. The Cold War was great for tech investment and research without a clear profit motive.
  - f6v 6y ago
    You also could just have millions of people working directly or indirectly for the benefit of those programs. To beat the "enemies" to it. It was a golden age for space exploration.
AnotherGoodName 6y ago
Even this week there's definitely a lack of publication of the Soviet successes. As in articles giving a history of Mars landings and omitting the first landing, Mars3 from mention. Wording i've seen. "USA is the only country to successfully land on Mars". "Chinas Tiawan-1 will make china the second country to successfully land on Mars." etc. The wording is subtle and arguably accurate but the omission is obvious. Here's an exact example of this i just read: "If successful, China will become the second country, after the US, to land and operate a rover on the Martian surface." Source: https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/10/22276153/china-reaches-mars-tianwen-1-probe https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/10/22276153/china-reaches-ma... The above is completely true. Whilst the Soviet Mars3 lander landed and it did transmit telemetry after landing its rover failed to deploy and since it was in a dust storm it didn't last long at all, it only lasted 20 seconds. So you can say limit your definition to exclude Mars3. Still if you're talking about the history of space missions to mars limiting the definition very precisely to exclude this is odd. It's a bit like if the USA landed a probe on Venus tomorrow that happened to transmit for more than an hour and then running headlines "NASAs probe is the first probe to land on Venus and transmit for more than an hour". It's not at all wrong. But geez that's a very interesting way to define things so that you don't have to say 'second'.
- user982 6y ago
  When it's mentioned at all, Sally Ride is sometimes called the second-ever woman in space (e.g., https://www.businessinsider.com/sally-ride-first-american-woman-in-space-life-legacy-2019-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/sally-ride-first-american-wo...). She wasn't; she was the third, and 20 years after the first.
- bmitc 6y ago
  I am reminded of the following exchange from The Big Lebowski: > Walter: “Am I wrong?” > The Dude: “... You’re not wrong, Walter. You’re just an asshole.” > Walter: “Okay then.”
jfultz 6y ago
Every faithful watcher of the Six Million Dollar Man series in 1977 and 1978 had at least some awareness of the Soviet Venus probe program. A two-part episode in 1977, and another two-parter in 1978 featured the so-called "Death Probe", a Soviet-made Venus probe which was (accidentally in 1977, and intentionally in 1978) unleashed on Earth instead, autonomously fulfilling its mission to "explore" its environs through various acts of violence and destruction supposedly suited for the hostile terrain of Venus. Because the probe was designed to operate on the surface of Venus, it was nearly indestructible. It's kind of a silly premise, but this was the single most memorable antagonist for Steve Austin from my childhood viewing of the show. And...I don't remember how I knew this, or how much it was discussed in connection with the show, but I knew that there really were Soviet Venus surface probes that this story was (very loosely) based on.
perl4ever 6y ago
I think I knew about it, because I think it was in the Time-Life book(s) about space exploration I read as a kid. So maybe it's a myth that it was ignored or suppressed?
neurostimulant 6y ago
Interesting. I remember reading about it in high school science book in my country in asia, so maybe we can rule out Russia's tendency to not publicize failed missions.

01100011 6y ago

Last night I was talking to a mechanical engineer friend who worked at JPL and he didn't know about the Venera program! I like to bring up Venus whenever Mars is in the news. It's so much more interesting to me than the tiny, dark dust bowl we keep probing.

basementcat 6y ago
Not everyone at JPL knows about every single space mission anyone has ever launched. Not everyone at Apple has the OSX syscall table memorized. Not everyone at Exxon knows about every single oil field.
- Teever 6y ago
  I don't think that's the right way to look at it. It's more like Apple OS developers not knowing about real-time operating systems or Exxon employees not knowing about off-shore drilling rigs. There's stuff you should just know about if you're in a field even if you're not familiar with it or an expert in it.
elihu 6y ago
In a sense, Mars is interesting just because it's boring. As in, compared to the other planets besides Earth it's perhaps the most benign environment for humans to possibly settle. Settling Venus is also possible, but it's less accessible due to the Earth-like gravity well, and it's easier to imagine humans living relatively comfortably and self-sufficiently in a Martian Hobbit hole than on giant zeppelins in the atmosphere of Venus. Venus is more mysterious simply because it's harder to see surface features under that atmosphere and the conditions on the surface are very strange and hard to imagine.

aero-glide2 6y ago

They even deployed balloons in Venusian atmosphere back in the 80s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vega_program#Balloon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vega_program#Balloon

throwawayboise 6y ago

Sounds like I'm about your age. I remember Venera being in the news and discussed at school in physics class (teacher was a bit of a "space" enthusiast). It definitely did not get the media attention that NASA missions got, but it seems likely that news of NASA missions didn't get much play in the USSR either. Cold war was still on, as you say.

29athrowaway 6y ago

The Venera program was profoundly significant: 1965: First landing on another planet (crash) 1967: First spacecraft to transmit data from another planet's atmosphere. 1970: First spacecraft to transmit data from another planet's surface. It's amazing they did all this in the 60s and 70s.

nemo44x 6y ago
We had commercial supersonic passenger flight in the mid-70’s. We don’t today. But we do have more affordable commercial flight I suppose. The Cold War was great for tech investment and research without a clear profit motive.
- f6v 6y ago
  You also could just have millions of people working directly or indirectly for the benefit of those programs. To beat the "enemies" to it. It was a golden age for space exploration.

AnotherGoodName 6y ago

Even this week there's definitely a lack of publication of the Soviet successes. As in articles giving a history of Mars landings and omitting the first landing, Mars3 from mention. Wording i've seen. "USA is the only country to successfully land on Mars". "Chinas Tiawan-1 will make china the second country to successfully land on Mars." etc. The wording is subtle and arguably accurate but the omission is obvious. Here's an exact example of this i just read: "If successful, China will become the second country, after the US, to land and operate a rover on the Martian surface." Source: https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/10/22276153/china-reaches-mars-tianwen-1-probe https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/10/22276153/china-reaches-ma... The above is completely true. Whilst the Soviet Mars3 lander landed and it did transmit telemetry after landing its rover failed to deploy and since it was in a dust storm it didn't last long at all, it only lasted 20 seconds. So you can say limit your definition to exclude Mars3. Still if you're talking about the history of space missions to mars limiting the definition very precisely to exclude this is odd. It's a bit like if the USA landed a probe on Venus tomorrow that happened to transmit for more than an hour and then running headlines "NASAs probe is the first probe to land on Venus and transmit for more than an hour". It's not at all wrong. But geez that's a very interesting way to define things so that you don't have to say 'second'.

user982 6y ago
When it's mentioned at all, Sally Ride is sometimes called the second-ever woman in space (e.g., https://www.businessinsider.com/sally-ride-first-american-woman-in-space-life-legacy-2019-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/sally-ride-first-american-wo...). She wasn't; she was the third, and 20 years after the first.
bmitc 6y ago
I am reminded of the following exchange from The Big Lebowski: > Walter: “Am I wrong?” > The Dude: “... You’re not wrong, Walter. You’re just an asshole.” > Walter: “Okay then.”

jfultz 6y ago

Every faithful watcher of the Six Million Dollar Man series in 1977 and 1978 had at least some awareness of the Soviet Venus probe program. A two-part episode in 1977, and another two-parter in 1978 featured the so-called "Death Probe", a Soviet-made Venus probe which was (accidentally in 1977, and intentionally in 1978) unleashed on Earth instead, autonomously fulfilling its mission to "explore" its environs through various acts of violence and destruction supposedly suited for the hostile terrain of Venus. Because the probe was designed to operate on the surface of Venus, it was nearly indestructible. It's kind of a silly premise, but this was the single most memorable antagonist for Steve Austin from my childhood viewing of the show. And...I don't remember how I knew this, or how much it was discussed in connection with the show, but I knew that there really were Soviet Venus surface probes that this story was (very loosely) based on.

perl4ever 6y ago

I think I knew about it, because I think it was in the Time-Life book(s) about space exploration I read as a kid. So maybe it's a myth that it was ignored or suppressed?

neurostimulant 6y ago

Interesting. I remember reading about it in high school science book in my country in asia, so maybe we can rule out Russia's tendency to not publicize failed missions.