4 ms·

So, they think they are owed a job but others are not owed Healthcare or basic dignitt

by sanp 6y ago

TrispusAttucks 6y ago
You're on a fishing expedition.
rubyist5eva 6y ago
No. They just want more opportunities for jobs. Healthcare is a product/service and the very basis of individual liberty is you cannot coerce someone to provide a service to you against their will. Dignity is not given or an entitlement, it is built and earned.
- krapp 6y ago
  But capitalism has optimized those jobs away, and they're never coming back. So now what?
  - TrispusAttucks 6y ago
    Maybe government tariffs on foreign imports produced with cheap labor? Actually ban products that use child labor? (Looking at you cobalt)
    - krapp 6y ago
      OK but the jobs still aren't coming back. Companies are just going to charge Americans more to make up the cost of the tarriffs, or leave the US as a market altogether. If the goal is to encourage domestic manufacturing, most of that work is automated now, and the rest will be competing with child and slave labor around the world. It would be better to plan for a future where human labor is no longer worth the value of human life, rather than longing for the past. And the US is never going to ban products that use child labor, because that would ban too many goods manufactured overseas, just as it's never going to be serious about illegal immigration, because the agricultural and service industries depend on under the table slave labor.
      - TrispusAttucks 6y ago
        Any artificial economic system that is not at it's foundation an [1] evolutionary stable strategy (ESS) will bubble and pop with negative consequences regardless of the systems altruistic intent. Ultimately causing more suffering in the long term from. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionarily_stable_strategy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionarily_stable_strate...
  - rubyist5eva 6y ago
    Most "optimization" of menial or low skill labour has been in response to government intervention into the market via things like minimum wage increases, or over-regulation. That's not capitalism.
    - krapp 6y ago
      All economies which are considered capitalist exist, and have existed, within the context of a state which regulates markets to some degree. A definition of capitalism which presupposes a pure free market isn't useful for discussing the real world - most people would consider the United States and the state of Texas to be capitalist, despite also being regulated. The incentives of neoliberalism and globalism are also unquestionably capitalist to almost everyone, the decisions to seek cheaper labor and more business-friendly regulatory environments as well as automation are made by businesses in order to reduce costs and create value for shareholders. Moving wealth to the capitalist class is literally the purpose of capitalism. But you can replace "capitalism" with whatever you prefer in this discussion, the incentives and outcomes in the real world remain the same.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]

So, they think they are owed a job but others are not owed Healthcare or basic dignitt

by sanp 6y ago

So, they think they are owed a job but others are not owed Healthcare or basic dignitt

TrispusAttucks 6y ago

You're on a fishing expedition.

rubyist5eva 6y ago

No. They just want more opportunities for jobs. Healthcare is a product/service and the very basis of individual liberty is you cannot coerce someone to provide a service to you against their will. Dignity is not given or an entitlement, it is built and earned.

krapp 6y ago
But capitalism has optimized those jobs away, and they're never coming back. So now what?
- TrispusAttucks 6y ago
  Maybe government tariffs on foreign imports produced with cheap labor? Actually ban products that use child labor? (Looking at you cobalt)
  - krapp 6y ago
    OK but the jobs still aren't coming back. Companies are just going to charge Americans more to make up the cost of the tarriffs, or leave the US as a market altogether. If the goal is to encourage domestic manufacturing, most of that work is automated now, and the rest will be competing with child and slave labor around the world. It would be better to plan for a future where human labor is no longer worth the value of human life, rather than longing for the past. And the US is never going to ban products that use child labor, because that would ban too many goods manufactured overseas, just as it's never going to be serious about illegal immigration, because the agricultural and service industries depend on under the table slave labor.
    - TrispusAttucks 6y ago
      Any artificial economic system that is not at it's foundation an [1] evolutionary stable strategy (ESS) will bubble and pop with negative consequences regardless of the systems altruistic intent. Ultimately causing more suffering in the long term from. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionarily_stable_strategy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionarily_stable_strate...
- rubyist5eva 6y ago
  Most "optimization" of menial or low skill labour has been in response to government intervention into the market via things like minimum wage increases, or over-regulation. That's not capitalism.
  - krapp 6y ago
    All economies which are considered capitalist exist, and have existed, within the context of a state which regulates markets to some degree. A definition of capitalism which presupposes a pure free market isn't useful for discussing the real world - most people would consider the United States and the state of Texas to be capitalist, despite also being regulated. The incentives of neoliberalism and globalism are also unquestionably capitalist to almost everyone, the decisions to seek cheaper labor and more business-friendly regulatory environments as well as automation are made by businesses in order to reduce costs and create value for shareholders. Moving wealth to the capitalist class is literally the purpose of capitalism. But you can replace "capitalism" with whatever you prefer in this discussion, the incentives and outcomes in the real world remain the same.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]