4 ms·

A lot of those voters don't want redistributed wealth. They want a job to earn a living and the self respect that comes with it.

mindslight 6y ago
Bingo. The overall problem is that technology is eliminating meaningful jobs while central bank policy consolidates the wealth upwards (trickle up economics). The blue tribe is focused on the lack of distributed output from traditional production, while the red tribe is lamenting the lack of distributed input required by traditional production. The red tribe doesn't have much of a plan besides looking wistfully towards the past and blaming foreigners for taking away jobs. The blue tribe doesn't have much of a plan besides gifting ever-more after it has been collected centrally. Meanwhile what we really need is a distributed economy that gives autonomous individuals self determination while recognizing that total labor demand is continuing to drop. I fear we won't see the return of this until a currency crisis, as it seems nothing is going to make the Fed change course at this point.
- sanp 6y ago
  OK. How does Fed policy influence whether or not we get universal Healthcare? Whether or not we have reliable grids? All these are still very much (one could argues even easier) possible in low interest environments...
  - mindslight 6y ago
    Universal healthcare is exactly one of those blue tribe proposals that addresses the lack of distributed output, but rings hollow with the red tribe because it does nothing for their sense of self-actualization. You need to be able to understand this if you want any hope of understanding our current impasse. Pragmatically I do agree that universal healthcare is a way forward out of the current ongoing catastrophe. But I'd much rather live in a society where most everyone were able to pay for most of their own healthcare out of pocket, rather than needing fake "insurance" in the first place. And yes low interest looks appealing for short-term business reasons - that's exactly why we're in a spiral. The lower the rates, the more things get financialized, and the more accountants take over pushing myopic models of how much safety margins can be cut.
sanp 6y ago
So, they think they are owed a job but others are not owed Healthcare or basic dignitt
- TrispusAttucks 6y ago
  You're on a fishing expedition.
- rubyist5eva 6y ago
  No. They just want more opportunities for jobs. Healthcare is a product/service and the very basis of individual liberty is you cannot coerce someone to provide a service to you against their will. Dignity is not given or an entitlement, it is built and earned.
  - krapp 6y ago
    But capitalism has optimized those jobs away, and they're never coming back. So now what?
    - TrispusAttucks 6y ago
      Maybe government tariffs on foreign imports produced with cheap labor? Actually ban products that use child labor? (Looking at you cobalt)
      - krapp 6y ago
        OK but the jobs still aren't coming back. Companies are just going to charge Americans more to make up the cost of the tarriffs, or leave the US as a market altogether. If the goal is to encourage domestic manufacturing, most of that work is automated now, and the rest will be competing with child and slave labor around the world. It would be better to plan for a future where human labor is no longer worth the value of human life, rather than longing for the past. And the US is never going to ban products that use child labor, because that would ban too many goods manufactured overseas, just as it's never going to be serious about illegal immigration, because the agricultural and service industries depend on under the table slave labor.

mindslight 6y ago

Bingo. The overall problem is that technology is eliminating meaningful jobs while central bank policy consolidates the wealth upwards (trickle up economics). The blue tribe is focused on the lack of distributed output from traditional production, while the red tribe is lamenting the lack of distributed input required by traditional production. The red tribe doesn't have much of a plan besides looking wistfully towards the past and blaming foreigners for taking away jobs. The blue tribe doesn't have much of a plan besides gifting ever-more after it has been collected centrally. Meanwhile what we really need is a distributed economy that gives autonomous individuals self determination while recognizing that total labor demand is continuing to drop. I fear we won't see the return of this until a currency crisis, as it seems nothing is going to make the Fed change course at this point.

sanp 6y ago
OK. How does Fed policy influence whether or not we get universal Healthcare? Whether or not we have reliable grids? All these are still very much (one could argues even easier) possible in low interest environments...
- mindslight 6y ago
  Universal healthcare is exactly one of those blue tribe proposals that addresses the lack of distributed output, but rings hollow with the red tribe because it does nothing for their sense of self-actualization. You need to be able to understand this if you want any hope of understanding our current impasse. Pragmatically I do agree that universal healthcare is a way forward out of the current ongoing catastrophe. But I'd much rather live in a society where most everyone were able to pay for most of their own healthcare out of pocket, rather than needing fake "insurance" in the first place. And yes low interest looks appealing for short-term business reasons - that's exactly why we're in a spiral. The lower the rates, the more things get financialized, and the more accountants take over pushing myopic models of how much safety margins can be cut.

sanp 6y ago

So, they think they are owed a job but others are not owed Healthcare or basic dignitt

TrispusAttucks 6y ago
You're on a fishing expedition.
rubyist5eva 6y ago
No. They just want more opportunities for jobs. Healthcare is a product/service and the very basis of individual liberty is you cannot coerce someone to provide a service to you against their will. Dignity is not given or an entitlement, it is built and earned.
- krapp 6y ago
  But capitalism has optimized those jobs away, and they're never coming back. So now what?
  - TrispusAttucks 6y ago
    Maybe government tariffs on foreign imports produced with cheap labor? Actually ban products that use child labor? (Looking at you cobalt)
    - krapp 6y ago
      OK but the jobs still aren't coming back. Companies are just going to charge Americans more to make up the cost of the tarriffs, or leave the US as a market altogether. If the goal is to encourage domestic manufacturing, most of that work is automated now, and the rest will be competing with child and slave labor around the world. It would be better to plan for a future where human labor is no longer worth the value of human life, rather than longing for the past. And the US is never going to ban products that use child labor, because that would ban too many goods manufactured overseas, just as it's never going to be serious about illegal immigration, because the agricultural and service industries depend on under the table slave labor.