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To have some significance, you'd need to link to a statement you wrote on this topic prior to the research being published. Otherwise this looks like you're jus

To have some significance, you'd need to link to a statement you wrote on this topic prior to the research being published. Otherwise this looks like you're just standing on the shoulders of giants to sing about how tall you are. To be clear-- even if you had published your 2nd paragraph prior to this research being published, that wouldn't qualify as something that is "completely obvious." At the very least you would have needed to give a hypothesis as to why it is you think the current anti-bullying programs cannot work. That hypothesis would have needed to at least include something like, "in my experience people end up bullying their friends most of the time." Otherwise, you can't convincingly claim the truth was obvious and people who didn't get it were likely pretending. Without the research, everyone just shrinks back to become little mice noisily speculating about the state of the world. Edit: clarification

zepto 6y ago
You are giving a lot of weight to the originality of academic institutions and their platforms as authorizers of knowledge. There are plenty of examples of people knowing things, or seeing things as obvious, which are only much later acknowledged by academic research. You are welcome to base your reality on what academia publishes, and accept that authority, but let’s be clear that this is what you are choosing to do. Also, it’s worth looking at the majority of comments on this post. Most of them also appear to assume that the research’s result was obvious.
whyleyc 6y ago
Actually it’s possible for people to have opinions on matters where they are not a published author or academic. Also “little mice noisily speculating about the state of the world” is a pretty good summary of a lot of academia.
- pii 6y ago
  Yeah we should burn the universities down
  - linuxhiker 6y ago
    No but they could certainly use a little bit less "theory" and a little bit more "real world".
    - pii 6y ago
      Tell that to the people who invented laser or who developed the theory of evolution or who refined economics with behavior or who put experimental evidence in front of theory in psychology or who insist on using data to uphold sociological theories. I have no idea what you could possibly mean by this. Do you want trade schools? Those exist.
      - pii 6y ago
        "Too much theory" was the exact reason we studied RNA vaccines and have a fast, working covid vaccine. I suppose math departments, being 100% theory, ought to go too
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Spivak 6y ago
You’re assuming the parent is arguing in bad faith which seems kinda pointless on the internet because only they know what’s in their head. I had the same reaction as the parent but I was also mercilessly bullied in middle and high school. It’s no different than any other form of abuse in that you have no choice but to understand the social dynamic so that you can protect yourself. I didn’t get bullied solely because I was nerdy, I got bullied because I was a nerdy kid who was trying to make friends. I didn’t get bullied solely because I was queer, I got bullied because I was queer and tried to not be ashamed of it. As soon as I accepted that my only permissible friends were the other misfits and queers then the bullying (mostly) stopped. It only started up again if as a group we started having too much fun in public because that started to threaten the popular kids’ position in school. If people saw us enjoying ourselves they might want to join us or shudder be like us. And that would make us… popular. Can’t have that.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  pretty spot on from my experience. there were always a couple truly cruel kids who would pick on anyone they perceived as weak. but most bullying seemed to be for the purpose of defending group boundaries. people would mostly leave you alone if they didn't think you were trying to join a group that wasn't "for you".
- sokoloff 6y ago
  I got lightly bullied in high school and the first part matches my experience: deciding that I didn’t care [very much] made it [mostly] stop, but if I let it get to me, it spiraled upward.
BiteCode_dev 6y ago
If some scientist comes to you and state "we proved that people can get hurt ridding bikes", it's fair to point out that there is little surprise about the formal proof of something so many people empirically experiment in their daily life.
koolba 6y ago
> To have some significance, you'd need to link to a statement you wrote on this topic prior to the research being published. Otherwise this looks like you're just standing on the shoulders of giants to sing about how tall you are. Not GP, but I've been advocating that children learn to defend themselves, both physically and verbally for many years. Here's a gem from a little over five years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11111126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11111126 Confrontation is a part of life and it's important to understand response in kind. If someone in school makes fun of your shoes you don't run away or punch them in the face, you make fun of their shirt. Anti-bullying can't work because the real world does not have referees jumping in to break up non-violent situations. Children need to learn to address their own situations and that the words of their peers are totally meaningless.
- bittercynic 6y ago
  > ...you make fun of their shirt. I agree that is an essential life skill, and I'd add that you have to judge the situation to know if that's appropriate. Sometimes your verbal assailant is not playful, but emotionally unbalanced, and responding in-kind will only put them farther over the edge, maybe dangerously so. I've had good results by yelling back with equal volume, but neutral tone, saying things like "Good morning. How you doing today?" and received a befuddled, and much quieter "Oh, good morning."
Spooky23 6y ago
It’s unreasonable to assume that people who are part of a bureaucracy will publish serious, critical research about it. It’s more convenient to find another problem to solve. For this issue today, we look at bettering the plight of gay eskimo pre-teens and declare victory over bullying. I can tell you from personal experience as a member of a non-marginalized demographic who was relentlessly bullied in elementary school that bullying is not limited to any one type of target. In my case, a feckless bureaucracy and adult laziness were key enablers of bullying and bullying behavior. Personally, a amazing and brave teacher “saved” me and did so at his personal initiative and at his peril from a career perspective.

zepto 6y ago

You are giving a lot of weight to the originality of academic institutions and their platforms as authorizers of knowledge. There are plenty of examples of people knowing things, or seeing things as obvious, which are only much later acknowledged by academic research. You are welcome to base your reality on what academia publishes, and accept that authority, but let’s be clear that this is what you are choosing to do. Also, it’s worth looking at the majority of comments on this post. Most of them also appear to assume that the research’s result was obvious.

whyleyc 6y ago

Actually it’s possible for people to have opinions on matters where they are not a published author or academic. Also “little mice noisily speculating about the state of the world” is a pretty good summary of a lot of academia.

pii 6y ago
Yeah we should burn the universities down
- linuxhiker 6y ago
  No but they could certainly use a little bit less "theory" and a little bit more "real world".
  - pii 6y ago
    Tell that to the people who invented laser or who developed the theory of evolution or who refined economics with behavior or who put experimental evidence in front of theory in psychology or who insist on using data to uphold sociological theories. I have no idea what you could possibly mean by this. Do you want trade schools? Those exist.
    - pii 6y ago
      "Too much theory" was the exact reason we studied RNA vaccines and have a fast, working covid vaccine. I suppose math departments, being 100% theory, ought to go too
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Spivak 6y ago

You’re assuming the parent is arguing in bad faith which seems kinda pointless on the internet because only they know what’s in their head. I had the same reaction as the parent but I was also mercilessly bullied in middle and high school. It’s no different than any other form of abuse in that you have no choice but to understand the social dynamic so that you can protect yourself. I didn’t get bullied solely because I was nerdy, I got bullied because I was a nerdy kid who was trying to make friends. I didn’t get bullied solely because I was queer, I got bullied because I was queer and tried to not be ashamed of it. As soon as I accepted that my only permissible friends were the other misfits and queers then the bullying (mostly) stopped. It only started up again if as a group we started having too much fun in public because that started to threaten the popular kids’ position in school. If people saw us enjoying ourselves they might want to join us or shudder be like us. And that would make us… popular. Can’t have that.

leetcrew 6y ago
pretty spot on from my experience. there were always a couple truly cruel kids who would pick on anyone they perceived as weak. but most bullying seemed to be for the purpose of defending group boundaries. people would mostly leave you alone if they didn't think you were trying to join a group that wasn't "for you".
sokoloff 6y ago
I got lightly bullied in high school and the first part matches my experience: deciding that I didn’t care [very much] made it [mostly] stop, but if I let it get to me, it spiraled upward.

BiteCode_dev 6y ago

If some scientist comes to you and state "we proved that people can get hurt ridding bikes", it's fair to point out that there is little surprise about the formal proof of something so many people empirically experiment in their daily life.

koolba 6y ago

> To have some significance, you'd need to link to a statement you wrote on this topic prior to the research being published. Otherwise this looks like you're just standing on the shoulders of giants to sing about how tall you are. Not GP, but I've been advocating that children learn to defend themselves, both physically and verbally for many years. Here's a gem from a little over five years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11111126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11111126 Confrontation is a part of life and it's important to understand response in kind. If someone in school makes fun of your shoes you don't run away or punch them in the face, you make fun of their shirt. Anti-bullying can't work because the real world does not have referees jumping in to break up non-violent situations. Children need to learn to address their own situations and that the words of their peers are totally meaningless.

bittercynic 6y ago
> ...you make fun of their shirt. I agree that is an essential life skill, and I'd add that you have to judge the situation to know if that's appropriate. Sometimes your verbal assailant is not playful, but emotionally unbalanced, and responding in-kind will only put them farther over the edge, maybe dangerously so. I've had good results by yelling back with equal volume, but neutral tone, saying things like "Good morning. How you doing today?" and received a befuddled, and much quieter "Oh, good morning."

Spooky23 6y ago

It’s unreasonable to assume that people who are part of a bureaucracy will publish serious, critical research about it. It’s more convenient to find another problem to solve. For this issue today, we look at bettering the plight of gay eskimo pre-teens and declare victory over bullying. I can tell you from personal experience as a member of a non-marginalized demographic who was relentlessly bullied in elementary school that bullying is not limited to any one type of target. In my case, a feckless bureaucracy and adult laziness were key enablers of bullying and bullying behavior. Personally, a amazing and brave teacher “saved” me and did so at his personal initiative and at his peril from a career perspective.