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And this also will lead to further divides where the wealthy get batteries and generators while everyone else is literally left out in the cold. Seeing the fai

And this also will lead to further divides where the wealthy get batteries and generators while everyone else is literally left out in the cold. Seeing the failure of American politics recently is sad - it feels like society has just given up any ambition in favor of petty in fighting. The article touches on an important point - we are hopelessly short term in our thinking, and the political system reflects that. Look at China's Belt and Road initiative, it's a 40 year, ambitious plan. Do we even have any serious 10 year plans? 5 year? And why not?

humanlion87 6y ago
I agree that short term thinking is a huge problem. Almost all the reps/senators are optimizing for winning the next election 2/6 years away. It's just a sad state of affairs. I have no idea what the problem to the soliton is. But unless we do something concrete, seems like things will get worse as weather patterns keep changing.
- alexilliamson 6y ago
  Reasonable term limits?
hkt 6y ago
> And why not? Expectation management. There's such rancour about basic questions of what people in society owe one another than it can't be any other way. The rancour is stoked by people who have the most to lose from a redistributive and rights based model of society. There used to be organised resistance to them, but it was comprehensively broken in the late 20th century and has yet to return.
- JKCalhoun 6y ago
  We seem to have replied to OP at the same time, and with the same thoughts.
- kiba 6y ago
  Most to lose? A lot of republican voters are poor, no? They would have the most to gain from a more equal distribution of wealth.
  - TrispusAttucks 6y ago
    A lot of those voters don't want redistributed wealth. They want a job to earn a living and the self respect that comes with it.
    - mindslight 6y ago
      Bingo. The overall problem is that technology is eliminating meaningful jobs while central bank policy consolidates the wealth upwards (trickle up economics). The blue tribe is focused on the lack of distributed output from traditional production, while the red tribe is lamenting the lack of distributed input required by traditional production. The red tribe doesn't have much of a plan besides looking wistfully towards the past and blaming foreigners for taking away jobs. The blue tribe doesn't have much of a plan besides gifting ever-more after it has been collected centrally. Meanwhile what we really need is a distributed economy that gives autonomous individuals self determination while recognizing that total labor demand is continuing to drop. I fear we won't see the return of this until a currency crisis, as it seems nothing is going to make the Fed change course at this point.
      - sanp 6y ago
        OK. How does Fed policy influence whether or not we get universal Healthcare? Whether or not we have reliable grids? All these are still very much (one could argues even easier) possible in low interest environments...
        mindslight 6y ago
        Universal healthcare is exactly one of those blue tribe proposals that addresses the lack of distributed output, but rings hollow with the red tribe because it does nothing for their sense of self-actualization. You need to be able to understand this if you want any hope of understanding our current impasse. Pragmatically I do agree that universal healthcare is a way forward out of the current ongoing catastrophe. But I'd much rather live in a society where most everyone were able to pay for most of their own healthcare out of pocket, rather than needing fake "insurance" in the first place. And yes low interest looks appealing for short-term business reasons - that's exactly why we're in a spiral. The lower the rates, the more things get financialized, and the more accountants take over pushing myopic models of how much safety margins can be cut.
JKCalhoun 6y ago
> Seeing the failure of American politics recently is sad - it feels like society has just given up any ambition in favor of petty in fighting. It looks more and more to me like there are those who prefer the petty in-fighting to the kind of societal upheaval that could result if the U.S. enacted the kind of changes that improved life for the "masses".
- DougN7 6y ago
  The memes you see passed around on Facebook seem to show that nobody is willing/able to stop and think something through. They just get outraged at a perceived slight and then pass/amplify the stupid thought. People are being lead about by the nose through their emotions.
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Jealousy is a little misplaced. History has seen a number of countries with strongmen and with ambitious multi-decade plans, and generally those plans went up in smoke as soon as the strongman died or otherwise exited the scene. It turns out that the strongman was powerful enough to sustain a marketing push and put some pressure on the state machinery, but society actually wasn’t very united behind the plan after all.
- mindvirus 6y ago
  I don't know if that's necessarily true though. America had pulled off plenty of ambitious long term things within the constraints of democracy - the Apollo program, the Interstates, the NYC subway system, the internet.
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    But none of those were very multidecade plans. The Apollo program was basically the 1960s before democratic pressures ended it (society no longer saw as much value in space after the first moon landings). The interstates were largely a mid-century project, and they have infamously been neglected since. The internet was only a public project very early on, and most of what we now know as the internet was a product of the private sector, etc.
throw0101a 6y ago
> Seeing the failure of American politics recently is sad - it feels like society has just given up any ambition in favor of petty in fighting. Please don't both-sides this: * https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/10/31/the-republican-party-has-lurched-towards-populism-and-illiberalism https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/10/31/the-repu... * Source PDF: https://www.v-dem.net/media/filer_public/b6/55/b6553f85-5c5d-45ec-be63-a48a2abe3f62/briefing_paper_9.pdf https://www.v-dem.net/media/filer_public/b6/55/b6553f85-5c5d... > Look at China's Belt and Road initiative, it's a 40 year, ambitious plan. Do we even have any serious 10 year plans? 5 year? And why not? The GOP had major control of the federal levers of power for a good portion of the last few years, and yet "Infrastructure Week" became a running joke: * https://www.npr.org/2018/05/15/611389675/why-its-infrastructure-week-again https://www.npr.org/2018/05/15/611389675/why-its-infrastruct... * https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/10/21173209/infrastructure-week-dead-rebranded-trump-tweets-united-policy https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/10/21173209/infrastructure-w...
- mindvirus 6y ago
  I'm not trying to both sides this - but it shouldn't be controversial to say that the net output of the political system isn't great. This isn't just a reflection of the parties, but the will of the people.
  - throw0101a 6y ago
    Yes, the net output of the US political system is somewhat garbage. But there are specific sources of that garbage in recent years.
- Dirlewanger 6y ago
  Obama accomplished next to nothing of note in his 8 years. ACA, while a start, largely doesn't change anything about how the healthcare industry operates. He accomplished nothing with regards to our failing infrastructure. The alphabet agencies sure loved him though. So far with Biden, we were promised an additional $2000 stimulus check...oh actually it's just $1400...oh actually, we're not so sure now. What did he do instead? Marched the military right back into Syria on his first day in office. So yes, this is a "both sides" thing.
MangoCoffee 6y ago
i argue that in the US, the private sectors actually lead the country and not the govrt. every 4 yrs we can have a new administration and the new administration can cancel the previous administration's orders. what we are seeing is the private sectors leading the way and a lot of time influence the govrt. Tesla have effectively changed people's mind about the electrical car and move the auto industry and even govrt. to "green energy". you can also see it in the covid19 vaccine development. the private sectors step in to develop the vaccine and the govrt. remove a lot of barriers to speed up the process. >Look at China's Belt and Road initiative, it's a 40 year, ambitious plan. Do we even have any serious 10 year plans? 5 year? And why not? that required a authoritarian govrt and a president for life like Xi. Xi break the CCP's norm on the term limit and consolidated more powers onto himself than even Mao. that's kind of govrt that you needs in order to push for 40 years or even 10 year plans.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- adamcstephens 6y ago
  You don’t need an authoritarian government to plan ahead, just leadership. If my state can sign a 99 year lease with a sports club, surely they can plan for real issues for longer than 6 months, right?
tzs 6y ago
> And this also will lead to further divides where the wealthy get batteries and generators while everyone else is literally left out in the cold. On the other hand, if the wealthy get batteries and generators then that would turn wealthy neighborhoods into neighborhoods where it is safe for the power company to cut power when they need to shed load.

humanlion87 6y ago

I agree that short term thinking is a huge problem. Almost all the reps/senators are optimizing for winning the next election 2/6 years away. It's just a sad state of affairs. I have no idea what the problem to the soliton is. But unless we do something concrete, seems like things will get worse as weather patterns keep changing.

alexilliamson 6y ago
Reasonable term limits?

hkt 6y ago

> And why not? Expectation management. There's such rancour about basic questions of what people in society owe one another than it can't be any other way. The rancour is stoked by people who have the most to lose from a redistributive and rights based model of society. There used to be organised resistance to them, but it was comprehensively broken in the late 20th century and has yet to return.

JKCalhoun 6y ago
We seem to have replied to OP at the same time, and with the same thoughts.
kiba 6y ago
Most to lose? A lot of republican voters are poor, no? They would have the most to gain from a more equal distribution of wealth.
- TrispusAttucks 6y ago
  A lot of those voters don't want redistributed wealth. They want a job to earn a living and the self respect that comes with it.
  - mindslight 6y ago
    Bingo. The overall problem is that technology is eliminating meaningful jobs while central bank policy consolidates the wealth upwards (trickle up economics). The blue tribe is focused on the lack of distributed output from traditional production, while the red tribe is lamenting the lack of distributed input required by traditional production. The red tribe doesn't have much of a plan besides looking wistfully towards the past and blaming foreigners for taking away jobs. The blue tribe doesn't have much of a plan besides gifting ever-more after it has been collected centrally. Meanwhile what we really need is a distributed economy that gives autonomous individuals self determination while recognizing that total labor demand is continuing to drop. I fear we won't see the return of this until a currency crisis, as it seems nothing is going to make the Fed change course at this point.
    - sanp 6y ago
      OK. How does Fed policy influence whether or not we get universal Healthcare? Whether or not we have reliable grids? All these are still very much (one could argues even easier) possible in low interest environments...
      - mindslight 6y ago
        Universal healthcare is exactly one of those blue tribe proposals that addresses the lack of distributed output, but rings hollow with the red tribe because it does nothing for their sense of self-actualization. You need to be able to understand this if you want any hope of understanding our current impasse. Pragmatically I do agree that universal healthcare is a way forward out of the current ongoing catastrophe. But I'd much rather live in a society where most everyone were able to pay for most of their own healthcare out of pocket, rather than needing fake "insurance" in the first place. And yes low interest looks appealing for short-term business reasons - that's exactly why we're in a spiral. The lower the rates, the more things get financialized, and the more accountants take over pushing myopic models of how much safety margins can be cut.

JKCalhoun 6y ago

> Seeing the failure of American politics recently is sad - it feels like society has just given up any ambition in favor of petty in fighting. It looks more and more to me like there are those who prefer the petty in-fighting to the kind of societal upheaval that could result if the U.S. enacted the kind of changes that improved life for the "masses".

DougN7 6y ago
The memes you see passed around on Facebook seem to show that nobody is willing/able to stop and think something through. They just get outraged at a perceived slight and then pass/amplify the stupid thought. People are being lead about by the nose through their emotions.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago

Jealousy is a little misplaced. History has seen a number of countries with strongmen and with ambitious multi-decade plans, and generally those plans went up in smoke as soon as the strongman died or otherwise exited the scene. It turns out that the strongman was powerful enough to sustain a marketing push and put some pressure on the state machinery, but society actually wasn’t very united behind the plan after all.

mindvirus 6y ago
I don't know if that's necessarily true though. America had pulled off plenty of ambitious long term things within the constraints of democracy - the Apollo program, the Interstates, the NYC subway system, the internet.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  But none of those were very multidecade plans. The Apollo program was basically the 1960s before democratic pressures ended it (society no longer saw as much value in space after the first moon landings). The interstates were largely a mid-century project, and they have infamously been neglected since. The internet was only a public project very early on, and most of what we now know as the internet was a product of the private sector, etc.

throw0101a 6y ago

> Seeing the failure of American politics recently is sad - it feels like society has just given up any ambition in favor of petty in fighting. Please don't both-sides this: * https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/10/31/the-republican-party-has-lurched-towards-populism-and-illiberalism https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/10/31/the-repu... * Source PDF: https://www.v-dem.net/media/filer_public/b6/55/b6553f85-5c5d-45ec-be63-a48a2abe3f62/briefing_paper_9.pdf https://www.v-dem.net/media/filer_public/b6/55/b6553f85-5c5d... > Look at China's Belt and Road initiative, it's a 40 year, ambitious plan. Do we even have any serious 10 year plans? 5 year? And why not? The GOP had major control of the federal levers of power for a good portion of the last few years, and yet "Infrastructure Week" became a running joke: * https://www.npr.org/2018/05/15/611389675/why-its-infrastructure-week-again https://www.npr.org/2018/05/15/611389675/why-its-infrastruct... * https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/10/21173209/infrastructure-week-dead-rebranded-trump-tweets-united-policy https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/10/21173209/infrastructure-w...

mindvirus 6y ago
I'm not trying to both sides this - but it shouldn't be controversial to say that the net output of the political system isn't great. This isn't just a reflection of the parties, but the will of the people.
- throw0101a 6y ago
  Yes, the net output of the US political system is somewhat garbage. But there are specific sources of that garbage in recent years.
Dirlewanger 6y ago
Obama accomplished next to nothing of note in his 8 years. ACA, while a start, largely doesn't change anything about how the healthcare industry operates. He accomplished nothing with regards to our failing infrastructure. The alphabet agencies sure loved him though. So far with Biden, we were promised an additional $2000 stimulus check...oh actually it's just $1400...oh actually, we're not so sure now. What did he do instead? Marched the military right back into Syria on his first day in office. So yes, this is a "both sides" thing.

MangoCoffee 6y ago

i argue that in the US, the private sectors actually lead the country and not the govrt. every 4 yrs we can have a new administration and the new administration can cancel the previous administration's orders. what we are seeing is the private sectors leading the way and a lot of time influence the govrt. Tesla have effectively changed people's mind about the electrical car and move the auto industry and even govrt. to "green energy". you can also see it in the covid19 vaccine development. the private sectors step in to develop the vaccine and the govrt. remove a lot of barriers to speed up the process. >Look at China's Belt and Road initiative, it's a 40 year, ambitious plan. Do we even have any serious 10 year plans? 5 year? And why not? that required a authoritarian govrt and a president for life like Xi. Xi break the CCP's norm on the term limit and consolidated more powers onto himself than even Mao. that's kind of govrt that you needs in order to push for 40 years or even 10 year plans.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
adamcstephens 6y ago
You don’t need an authoritarian government to plan ahead, just leadership. If my state can sign a 99 year lease with a sports club, surely they can plan for real issues for longer than 6 months, right?

tzs 6y ago

> And this also will lead to further divides where the wealthy get batteries and generators while everyone else is literally left out in the cold. On the other hand, if the wealthy get batteries and generators then that would turn wealthy neighborhoods into neighborhoods where it is safe for the power company to cut power when they need to shed load.