11 ms·

I don't understand why this should be hidden. Obfuscation leads to compromised security. If we don't know about this mode, how can we be sure it's not being us

by lwhi 6y ago

I don't understand why this should be hidden. Obfuscation leads to compromised security. If we don't know about this mode, how can we be sure it's not being used as an attack vector?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
tonyedgecombe 6y ago
It's not hidden, the author of the post found out about it from Apple documentation.
- lwhi 6y ago
  Ahh .. thx, in that case, the title is a bit misleading.
- lovelyviking 6y ago
  Sure, it's just when I've got exclamation mark screen, apple didn't tell me that I have another boot option. Instead it told me to get access to another Mac with possible 'healthy' supply of COVID. If that is not 'hidden' then what it is? How would you describe it?
  - spacedcowboy 6y ago
    A mistake ? I don’t see how something in the documentation for the platform is “hidden”. It’s sort of the definition of “not hidden”.
    - lovelyviking 6y ago
      >A mistake ? Absolutely. This is why we will see very soon detailed instruction about second boot option instead of a black screen with exclamation mark. But if not, perhaps it wasn't a mistake. One could only hope.
    - lovelyviking 6y ago
      another two mistakes? or it's described somewhere there and I just didn't see? https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211868 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211868 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/apple-configurator-2/apdd5f3c75ad/mac https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/apple-configurator-2/a...
- cbsmith 6y ago
  Apple traditionally advocated discoverable (without the documentation) features, particularly for cases where the user might be experiencing a problem. It is fascinating how "good UX" has evolved over time.
  - jeromegv 6y ago
    We seem to collectively forget a lot of things with the Mac experience. You know how many troubleshooting required to zap the pram? Option-cmd-p-r on startup. Was that good Ux that people could guess on their own?
    - userbinator 6y ago
      With Apple, all you get is either an Apple logo, or some obscure symbol when something does go wrong. It's a huge difference from PC BIOS that is far more informative and instructive. It reminds me of the Douglas Adams quote: "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair."
      - floatboth 6y ago
        In the "zap pram" days, you could get an Open Firmware prompt :)
    - cbsmith 6y ago
      I'm familiar with Option-cmd-p-r as well as other enumerable startup sequences. That was kind of the joke with Apple. Good UX principles were very much a "do as I say, not as I do" kind of thing. ;-)
  - abandonliberty 6y ago
    Good UX hasn't changed. Apple sacrificed it for design.
nojito 6y ago
It's not hidden. It's literally in the documentation. All this shows is that people do NOT read docs and expects others to read it for them.
- lovelyviking 6y ago
  So why black screen with exclamation mark sends you to the web page where there is no one word about other boot option even if you read it ? https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211868 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211868
  - marcinzm 6y ago
    Because it’s there to filter random non-technical users from technical users/experts.
    - lovelyviking 6y ago
      >"it’s there to filter" So the web page mentions Apple Configurator, firmware and also for complete details provides link to "Revive or restore a Mac with Apple silicon" where the process of reviving and restoration is described with all details but somehow the other option of booting the Mac is not mentioned to filter random non-technical users from technical users/experts? I presume (following your logic) "Revive or restore a Mac with Apple silicon" doesn't mention it by the same reasons: To filter non-technical users. I doubt it.
lovelyviking 6y ago
It leads me to believe there are more 'hidden' things there. Honestly I do not even consider it a 'personal' computer because of this. It's a 'terminal' at best and even in that role I have no idea how secure it can be.
saagarjha 6y ago
This was announced way back in June even before the computers shipped, actually. It’s not particularly hidden.
- lovelyviking 6y ago
  So why the second boot option was not mentioned here[1] nor there[2]? Mistake, I presume? I've got my M1 Mac not booting because of the bug in Disk Utility and I really could've use second boot option. It would've saved me from the effort to reach 'another Mac' endangering myself with COVID exposure. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211868 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211868 [2] https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/apple-configurator-2/apdd5f3c75ad/mac https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/apple-configurator-2/a...
  - lovelyviking 6y ago
    Now, Out of curiosity already. What is factually incorrect in the previous post? Or since everything is correct it's easier to simply downvote for bullying reasons by Apple employees? A small warning The more bullying the more chances of special film about the topic, so bullying would no work.

by lwhi 6y ago

I don't understand why this should be hidden. Obfuscation leads to compromised security. If we don't know about this mode, how can we be sure it's not being used as an attack vector?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

tonyedgecombe 6y ago

It's not hidden, the author of the post found out about it from Apple documentation.

lwhi 6y ago
Ahh .. thx, in that case, the title is a bit misleading.
lovelyviking 6y ago
Sure, it's just when I've got exclamation mark screen, apple didn't tell me that I have another boot option. Instead it told me to get access to another Mac with possible 'healthy' supply of COVID. If that is not 'hidden' then what it is? How would you describe it?
- spacedcowboy 6y ago
  A mistake ? I don’t see how something in the documentation for the platform is “hidden”. It’s sort of the definition of “not hidden”.
  - lovelyviking 6y ago
    >A mistake ? Absolutely. This is why we will see very soon detailed instruction about second boot option instead of a black screen with exclamation mark. But if not, perhaps it wasn't a mistake. One could only hope.
  - lovelyviking 6y ago
    another two mistakes? or it's described somewhere there and I just didn't see? https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211868 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211868 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/apple-configurator-2/apdd5f3c75ad/mac https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/apple-configurator-2/a...
cbsmith 6y ago
Apple traditionally advocated discoverable (without the documentation) features, particularly for cases where the user might be experiencing a problem. It is fascinating how "good UX" has evolved over time.
- jeromegv 6y ago
  We seem to collectively forget a lot of things with the Mac experience. You know how many troubleshooting required to zap the pram? Option-cmd-p-r on startup. Was that good Ux that people could guess on their own?
  - userbinator 6y ago
    With Apple, all you get is either an Apple logo, or some obscure symbol when something does go wrong. It's a huge difference from PC BIOS that is far more informative and instructive. It reminds me of the Douglas Adams quote: "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair."
    - floatboth 6y ago
      In the "zap pram" days, you could get an Open Firmware prompt :)
  - cbsmith 6y ago
    I'm familiar with Option-cmd-p-r as well as other enumerable startup sequences. That was kind of the joke with Apple. Good UX principles were very much a "do as I say, not as I do" kind of thing. ;-)
- abandonliberty 6y ago
  Good UX hasn't changed. Apple sacrificed it for design.

nojito 6y ago

It's not hidden. It's literally in the documentation. All this shows is that people do NOT read docs and expects others to read it for them.

lovelyviking 6y ago
So why black screen with exclamation mark sends you to the web page where there is no one word about other boot option even if you read it ? https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211868 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211868
- marcinzm 6y ago
  Because it’s there to filter random non-technical users from technical users/experts.
  - lovelyviking 6y ago
    >"it’s there to filter" So the web page mentions Apple Configurator, firmware and also for complete details provides link to "Revive or restore a Mac with Apple silicon" where the process of reviving and restoration is described with all details but somehow the other option of booting the Mac is not mentioned to filter random non-technical users from technical users/experts? I presume (following your logic) "Revive or restore a Mac with Apple silicon" doesn't mention it by the same reasons: To filter non-technical users. I doubt it.

lovelyviking 6y ago

It leads me to believe there are more 'hidden' things there. Honestly I do not even consider it a 'personal' computer because of this. It's a 'terminal' at best and even in that role I have no idea how secure it can be.

saagarjha 6y ago

This was announced way back in June even before the computers shipped, actually. It’s not particularly hidden.

lovelyviking 6y ago
So why the second boot option was not mentioned here[1] nor there[2]? Mistake, I presume? I've got my M1 Mac not booting because of the bug in Disk Utility and I really could've use second boot option. It would've saved me from the effort to reach 'another Mac' endangering myself with COVID exposure. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211868 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211868 [2] https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/apple-configurator-2/apdd5f3c75ad/mac https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/apple-configurator-2/a...
- lovelyviking 6y ago
  Now, Out of curiosity already. What is factually incorrect in the previous post? Or since everything is correct it's easier to simply downvote for bullying reasons by Apple employees? A small warning The more bullying the more chances of special film about the topic, so bullying would no work.