12 ms·

Some of us "slack ass clock punchers" have lives outside of work. I have friends and family and hobbies that do not involve sitting in front of a computer scree

Some of us "slack ass clock punchers" have lives outside of work. I have friends and family and hobbies that do not involve sitting in front of a computer screen for every waking moment of the day. Working to live, vs. living to work.

sliverstorm 15y ago
If you love your work, what is wrong with living to work? (When I say living to work, take it as implied that I mean taking good enough care of yourself to prevent physical or mental health problems from tanking your work quality)
- strlen 15y ago
  Exactly. I love what I do. If I had to work a job that didn't involve programming, I'd still do it after work (I've played an amazing 3d game that as written by somebody who worked a summer job at a gas station). I regularly program outside of work, I've stayed at work for long hours. When I'd have a day with multiple meetings, I'd frequently stay late to write code as otherwise I'd feel unsatisfied. At the mean time, some days I'd prefer to have dinner with my girlfriend after work. On weekends I'd occasionally prefer a get away outside of Silicon Valley. Exercise is an absolute must. I also have interest outside of computing: reading (history, philosophy), photography. Pursuing them only helps re-invigorate my passion for computing: occasionally ideas would come to me when I'm reading an unrelated book, working out at the gym or taking photographs. Many times there's a direct link: I'd write my own photo gallery software and host the pictures myself, build creative ways to backup my images, research ways to do interesting image manipulation from Linux (photo manipulation libraries, etc...) etc... Pursuing photography as a hobby while on a budget as a college student meant I had to do "casual programming" quite frequently to get what I want done (now, however, I've shelled out for Aperture). It's important to understand that performance requires maintenance, good ideas come form outside. At the mean time, there's nothing wrong with working long hours if you want to do so: it's only healthy and pleasant if you actually have a passion for what you do (as long as you don't go to the extreme of forgoing maintenance and ignoring other sources of inspiration).
- gnosis 15y ago
  Sensible people get paid for playing -- that is the art of life. -- Alan Watts
erikpukinskis 15y ago
hobbies that do not involve sitting in front of a computer screen... Working to live, vs. living to work. It's more complex than that for me. I really like Calcanis's point that work is life for him. "Work to live" makes it sound like you would be happier if you could just have a trust fund, which is true for almost nobody. I don't know if I want to take it to Calcanis's level where his work is his Alpha and his Omega, but my work is a big, big part of my life right now, and the other things (friends, dating, a home life, hobbies, etc) are less important to me. In the future surely that will change/flip. Certainly I've had different priorities in the past. But the other thing is I kind of treat my "hobbies" as work. I just moved to a new city, and a lot of the "non-work" fun people are doing is partying, drinking, eating, playing outside, etc. Those are things I love, but lately what I really want to do is gardening, beer brewing, building structures, and yes... even coding for fun. And one of those activities--gardening--became the foundation of my business. So now, even that is considered "working" in a very real sense. So for me, this work/play line is very blurry. And the question of whether it's ok to want to spend most of your time in the "work" world is open for me. As is the question of whether it's reasonable for people like me (and Calcanis) to want to work only with other people who feel the same way. Personally, I'd never want to work in a company full of "me's". I'm totally screwed up in a bunch of important ways, and I want people who do the opposite to balance me out. I guess that's where I disagree with both DHH and Calcanis. I'll throw my own absurd overgeneralization in to the ring: fire the people who are just like you.
- cipherpunk 15y ago
  I don't know what a trust fund is, but my goal in life is to maximise leisure and minimise work. The more time I have to spend on my own activities, things that make me happy, the better. (This even involves writing Scheme for fun.) If you have a job doing something you love, I am not about to look down on you for working extra hours. After all, you'd probably be doing it whether you were being paid or not. It doesn't feel like work at all. That is where I draw the distinction. If you are doing something that you normally would not be doing, something you don't enjoy, and taking pride in the fact that you are putting in these extra hours for free, working for someone else, increasing their wealth... the employer has you exactly where they want you. The perfect employee. Working for yourself, now that's an entirely different matter. Work as hard and as long as you want. You're only answering to you.
BasDirks 15y ago
There is no vs.

sliverstorm 15y ago

If you love your work, what is wrong with living to work? (When I say living to work, take it as implied that I mean taking good enough care of yourself to prevent physical or mental health problems from tanking your work quality)

strlen 15y ago
Exactly. I love what I do. If I had to work a job that didn't involve programming, I'd still do it after work (I've played an amazing 3d game that as written by somebody who worked a summer job at a gas station). I regularly program outside of work, I've stayed at work for long hours. When I'd have a day with multiple meetings, I'd frequently stay late to write code as otherwise I'd feel unsatisfied. At the mean time, some days I'd prefer to have dinner with my girlfriend after work. On weekends I'd occasionally prefer a get away outside of Silicon Valley. Exercise is an absolute must. I also have interest outside of computing: reading (history, philosophy), photography. Pursuing them only helps re-invigorate my passion for computing: occasionally ideas would come to me when I'm reading an unrelated book, working out at the gym or taking photographs. Many times there's a direct link: I'd write my own photo gallery software and host the pictures myself, build creative ways to backup my images, research ways to do interesting image manipulation from Linux (photo manipulation libraries, etc...) etc... Pursuing photography as a hobby while on a budget as a college student meant I had to do "casual programming" quite frequently to get what I want done (now, however, I've shelled out for Aperture). It's important to understand that performance requires maintenance, good ideas come form outside. At the mean time, there's nothing wrong with working long hours if you want to do so: it's only healthy and pleasant if you actually have a passion for what you do (as long as you don't go to the extreme of forgoing maintenance and ignoring other sources of inspiration).
gnosis 15y ago
Sensible people get paid for playing -- that is the art of life. -- Alan Watts

erikpukinskis 15y ago

hobbies that do not involve sitting in front of a computer screen... Working to live, vs. living to work. It's more complex than that for me. I really like Calcanis's point that work is life for him. "Work to live" makes it sound like you would be happier if you could just have a trust fund, which is true for almost nobody. I don't know if I want to take it to Calcanis's level where his work is his Alpha and his Omega, but my work is a big, big part of my life right now, and the other things (friends, dating, a home life, hobbies, etc) are less important to me. In the future surely that will change/flip. Certainly I've had different priorities in the past. But the other thing is I kind of treat my "hobbies" as work. I just moved to a new city, and a lot of the "non-work" fun people are doing is partying, drinking, eating, playing outside, etc. Those are things I love, but lately what I really want to do is gardening, beer brewing, building structures, and yes... even coding for fun. And one of those activities--gardening--became the foundation of my business. So now, even that is considered "working" in a very real sense. So for me, this work/play line is very blurry. And the question of whether it's ok to want to spend most of your time in the "work" world is open for me. As is the question of whether it's reasonable for people like me (and Calcanis) to want to work only with other people who feel the same way. Personally, I'd never want to work in a company full of "me's". I'm totally screwed up in a bunch of important ways, and I want people who do the opposite to balance me out. I guess that's where I disagree with both DHH and Calcanis. I'll throw my own absurd overgeneralization in to the ring: fire the people who are just like you.

cipherpunk 15y ago
I don't know what a trust fund is, but my goal in life is to maximise leisure and minimise work. The more time I have to spend on my own activities, things that make me happy, the better. (This even involves writing Scheme for fun.) If you have a job doing something you love, I am not about to look down on you for working extra hours. After all, you'd probably be doing it whether you were being paid or not. It doesn't feel like work at all. That is where I draw the distinction. If you are doing something that you normally would not be doing, something you don't enjoy, and taking pride in the fact that you are putting in these extra hours for free, working for someone else, increasing their wealth... the employer has you exactly where they want you. The perfect employee. Working for yourself, now that's an entirely different matter. Work as hard and as long as you want. You're only answering to you.

BasDirks 15y ago

There is no vs.