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To get back to basics, the definition of resign is "voluntarily leave a job or other position." It doesn't mentioning leaving at the exact date and time you c

To get back to basics, the definition of resign is "voluntarily leave a job or other position." It doesn't mentioning leaving at the exact date and time you choose. She didn't want to work @ Google anymore, and she told them she didn't and she'd find a good time to leave with her boss. Google responded with "now is the best time to leave".

monocasa 6y ago
Jumping from a legal definition to the Oxford English Dictionary's definition doesn't look great for your argument. "Well sure, but if we use another definition about this legal situation that has no basis in the applicable law then Google wasn't lying" doesn't really hold a lot of water. To be a resignation she needed to set the final date of employment. She did not, so it was not a resignation. Google knows this fact very well and therefore lied to the press about the circumstances. You even use the phrase "Gebru firing" in your first post in this particular thread.
- JamesBarney 6y ago
  I'm sorry if it was confusing. But I was not using the law to argue she was ineligible for unemployment. Or that legally she "voluntarily quit".(though there is at least an argument she did) Only that Google's or Jeff Dean's use of word resigned was not an easily verifiable lie. I used the term Gebru firing because I think either description is equally accurate. It was a firing in the sense Google did not want her to work there anymore. It was also a resignation in sense she didn't want to work there anymore. You're arguing that it's a bold faced law to describe a letter of resignation as such if there is not a specific date. You haven't shown this is true in California law much less English. And if it's true in any sense it's not a lie. If I went to my boss and said "I don't wanna work here anywhere, I'll check my calendar to find a convenient last day". And they respond with don't bother go home you'll get your two weeks. You're argument is if someone described that event to someone else as me resigning they'd be a big ol liar? That doesn't seem right to me.
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    She didn't say "I don't wanna work here anymore". She said they could discuss a last day when she was back from vacation. They said her employment was terminated immediately. So no more pay. Gebru was able and willing to continue working at the time Google terminated her employment. So it was involuntary in California law and English.[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26203772 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26203772
pseudalopex 6y ago
It isn't voluntary if the date and time is chosen for you. California allows the employer to choose the last day of work. Not the effective date of resignation. "An involuntary leaving of work occurs when the employer is the moving party in causing the unemployment of an employee at a time when the employee is able and willing to continue working."[1] Gebru said she would respond after she was back from vacation.[2] So she was willing to continue working that long at least. [1] http://carules.elaws.us/code/t.22_d.1_subd.1_d.1_pt1_ch.5_art1_sec.1256-1 http://carules.elaws.us/code/t.22_d.1_subd.1_d.1_pt1_ch.5_ar... [2] https://twitter.com/timnitgebru/status/1334341991795142667 https://twitter.com/timnitgebru/status/1334341991795142667
- username90 6y ago
  The legal definition doesn't matter. She resigned. Google almost surely reported it as a firing so she got her unemployment etc, but in practice they just accelerated her resignation. Easy to understand example: You say you will quit in 2 weeks. The company fires you on the spot. If people ask the company what happens do you think it is more accurate for them to say you were fired? Would you prefer a company to say you were fired if that happened to you and you used them as a reference? Pretty sure almost everyone would see that as you quitting and not you being fired. Legally you were fired but in practice you quit.
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    The factual definition is the same as the legal definition. I would say they fired me after I gave notice. Saying I resigned would be inaccurate. What I would want them to say doesn't matter. Gebru wanted them to say they fired her. And she didn't give notice. I would say I resigned before they could fire me if it was the other way around. Or resigned under duress if that's what happened. I know people who did. None of them said they were fired.

monocasa 6y ago

Jumping from a legal definition to the Oxford English Dictionary's definition doesn't look great for your argument. "Well sure, but if we use another definition about this legal situation that has no basis in the applicable law then Google wasn't lying" doesn't really hold a lot of water. To be a resignation she needed to set the final date of employment. She did not, so it was not a resignation. Google knows this fact very well and therefore lied to the press about the circumstances. You even use the phrase "Gebru firing" in your first post in this particular thread.

JamesBarney 6y ago
I'm sorry if it was confusing. But I was not using the law to argue she was ineligible for unemployment. Or that legally she "voluntarily quit".(though there is at least an argument she did) Only that Google's or Jeff Dean's use of word resigned was not an easily verifiable lie. I used the term Gebru firing because I think either description is equally accurate. It was a firing in the sense Google did not want her to work there anymore. It was also a resignation in sense she didn't want to work there anymore. You're arguing that it's a bold faced law to describe a letter of resignation as such if there is not a specific date. You haven't shown this is true in California law much less English. And if it's true in any sense it's not a lie. If I went to my boss and said "I don't wanna work here anywhere, I'll check my calendar to find a convenient last day". And they respond with don't bother go home you'll get your two weeks. You're argument is if someone described that event to someone else as me resigning they'd be a big ol liar? That doesn't seem right to me.
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  She didn't say "I don't wanna work here anymore". She said they could discuss a last day when she was back from vacation. They said her employment was terminated immediately. So no more pay. Gebru was able and willing to continue working at the time Google terminated her employment. So it was involuntary in California law and English.[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26203772 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26203772

pseudalopex 6y ago

It isn't voluntary if the date and time is chosen for you. California allows the employer to choose the last day of work. Not the effective date of resignation. "An involuntary leaving of work occurs when the employer is the moving party in causing the unemployment of an employee at a time when the employee is able and willing to continue working."[1] Gebru said she would respond after she was back from vacation.[2] So she was willing to continue working that long at least. [1] http://carules.elaws.us/code/t.22_d.1_subd.1_d.1_pt1_ch.5_art1_sec.1256-1 http://carules.elaws.us/code/t.22_d.1_subd.1_d.1_pt1_ch.5_ar... [2] https://twitter.com/timnitgebru/status/1334341991795142667 https://twitter.com/timnitgebru/status/1334341991795142667

username90 6y ago
The legal definition doesn't matter. She resigned. Google almost surely reported it as a firing so she got her unemployment etc, but in practice they just accelerated her resignation. Easy to understand example: You say you will quit in 2 weeks. The company fires you on the spot. If people ask the company what happens do you think it is more accurate for them to say you were fired? Would you prefer a company to say you were fired if that happened to you and you used them as a reference? Pretty sure almost everyone would see that as you quitting and not you being fired. Legally you were fired but in practice you quit.
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  The factual definition is the same as the legal definition. I would say they fired me after I gave notice. Saying I resigned would be inaccurate. What I would want them to say doesn't matter. Gebru wanted them to say they fired her. And she didn't give notice. I would say I resigned before they could fire me if it was the other way around. Or resigned under duress if that's what happened. I know people who did. None of them said they were fired.