5 ms·

>“To the extent that this is true, we should expect them to target not vulnerable wallflowers, but their own friends, and friends-of-friends, who are more likel

>“To the extent that this is true, we should expect them to target not vulnerable wallflowers, but their own friends, and friends-of-friends, who are more likely to be their rivals for higher rungs on the social ladder,” I was bullied and then bullied myself - not proud of that, but it felt natural as it made me cool. Then, a handicapped guy was bullied by my friends and I was defending him and kept the friendship with the handicapped guy. My status fell dramatically. Thinking back, I understand now the dynamics but I would have no advice to my child (if I had one) how to avoid being bullied or stop participating in bullying. My ex gf was a natural born leader, she was beautiful, tall, intelligent, but also a lone wolf. She was showing civil courage in school and was defending the weak ones without losing her status. But being pretty and a natural leader is nothing you can teach someone. Probably you just have to accept that bullying is part of our social dynamic.

pharmakom 6y ago
It is part of the human dynamic, but only when you are forced into contact with the same small group day after day. Lots of people bullied in high school thrive in the real world because there, if someone is disrespectful to you, then you have more options to walk away. Ever notice where bullying outside school occurs? Prisons and crappy jobs that people can’t afford to leave.
- eurasiantiger 6y ago
  Any place where you don’t have choice. Doctors, lawyers, even car mechanics if they think you’re desperate enough.
- Viliam1234 6y ago
  Yep. Bullying is a natural human reaction to certain environments (where "natural" is a description, not an endorsement), but that doesn' mean we have to organize our environments that way. As Madonna would say: there's no greater power than the power of goodbye.
- AtlasBarfed 6y ago
  It's tough. It is super important to provide structure to kids. But as you say, it's also disturbingly like prison. I think some of the problem is that you get your entire schedule dictated to you. It might be better if kids had a choice of homerooms, a choice of class schedules, a choice in "study hall". I also remember in education that the teachers bemoan stratified academic classes, because the "smart kids are important for teaching the dumber kids" in peer manner. Well, that always raised my warning bell, because those intermingled classes meant the "dumb kids" would bully the "smart kids" out of anger and frustration. The smarter a group of people, the less violent they generally are. Sure the bullying may reduce to intellectual and social bullying. But at least you aren't getting physically assaulted or threatened constantly with physical assault, which is much much worse, and don't let anyone tell you differently. Gym class was also one of the worst classes for providing bullying opportunity, and I was forced to go to it, despite the fact I did very physically intense sports each season, definitely closer to the "prison" than the "structure" side of things.
  - pharmakom 6y ago
    > The smarter a group of people, the less violent they generally are. I also believe this, but I don't know why I do. Is there any data to support this?
    - AtlasBarfed 6y ago
      Just anecdotal on my part. I always thought the brain looked like it evolved by basically adding a new layer atop the other. The primitive ones are highly refined by evolution and do their jobs well (breathing, etc), but the higher level ones do more complex tasks, but need "interrupt" mechanisms on the lower ones. The youngest layer that gives us consciousness has to contend with emotions, the subconscious, instincts, hormonal regulation, reflexes, and heartbeat/breathing rhythyms that all exist for very very very good reasons evolutionarily. So our brain is basically being run, motivated, and directed by animal-level evolutionary structures a huge amount of the time, and the ability of the "human" part depends on it's horsepower in the various talents like EQ, IQ, "wisdom", and self-restraint. I believe self-restraint has been correlated with intelligence. I guess other evidence would be various studies that the human brain is still maturing into your 20s.

pharmakom 6y ago

It is part of the human dynamic, but only when you are forced into contact with the same small group day after day. Lots of people bullied in high school thrive in the real world because there, if someone is disrespectful to you, then you have more options to walk away. Ever notice where bullying outside school occurs? Prisons and crappy jobs that people can’t afford to leave.

eurasiantiger 6y ago
Any place where you don’t have choice. Doctors, lawyers, even car mechanics if they think you’re desperate enough.
Viliam1234 6y ago
Yep. Bullying is a natural human reaction to certain environments (where "natural" is a description, not an endorsement), but that doesn' mean we have to organize our environments that way. As Madonna would say: there's no greater power than the power of goodbye.
AtlasBarfed 6y ago
It's tough. It is super important to provide structure to kids. But as you say, it's also disturbingly like prison. I think some of the problem is that you get your entire schedule dictated to you. It might be better if kids had a choice of homerooms, a choice of class schedules, a choice in "study hall". I also remember in education that the teachers bemoan stratified academic classes, because the "smart kids are important for teaching the dumber kids" in peer manner. Well, that always raised my warning bell, because those intermingled classes meant the "dumb kids" would bully the "smart kids" out of anger and frustration. The smarter a group of people, the less violent they generally are. Sure the bullying may reduce to intellectual and social bullying. But at least you aren't getting physically assaulted or threatened constantly with physical assault, which is much much worse, and don't let anyone tell you differently. Gym class was also one of the worst classes for providing bullying opportunity, and I was forced to go to it, despite the fact I did very physically intense sports each season, definitely closer to the "prison" than the "structure" side of things.
- pharmakom 6y ago
  > The smarter a group of people, the less violent they generally are. I also believe this, but I don't know why I do. Is there any data to support this?
  - AtlasBarfed 6y ago
    Just anecdotal on my part. I always thought the brain looked like it evolved by basically adding a new layer atop the other. The primitive ones are highly refined by evolution and do their jobs well (breathing, etc), but the higher level ones do more complex tasks, but need "interrupt" mechanisms on the lower ones. The youngest layer that gives us consciousness has to contend with emotions, the subconscious, instincts, hormonal regulation, reflexes, and heartbeat/breathing rhythyms that all exist for very very very good reasons evolutionarily. So our brain is basically being run, motivated, and directed by animal-level evolutionary structures a huge amount of the time, and the ability of the "human" part depends on it's horsepower in the various talents like EQ, IQ, "wisdom", and self-restraint. I believe self-restraint has been correlated with intelligence. I guess other evidence would be various studies that the human brain is still maturing into your 20s.