4 ms·

I am up past my bedtime typing on hacker news just to mega-disagree about the goldtouch keyboard, of which I own multiple and have used exclusively for over 10

I am up past my bedtime typing on hacker news just to mega-disagree about the goldtouch keyboard, of which I own multiple and have used exclusively for over 10 years to manage serious RSI which has left me debilitated at times and will probably never resolve fully. The goldtouch is a fantastic ergonomic keyboard. I’m sure others are just as good or better and didn’t object to the authors criticisms until s/he suggested a better alternative to the goldtouch is the Kenesis freestyle which does not tent, the main reason I use the goldtouch. This makes me wonder if the author is concerned about ergonomics and functionality or just quirkiness. The fact that he dumps all “mass market” keyboards (ie the majority of those people actually use) into one bucket in order to highlight a half dozen impractical lookalikes where someone basically just took a keyboard and cut it in half was the first thing that had me scratching my head. An interesting collection of oddities but not a sound product guide IMO.

stevekemp 6y ago
I had the same feeling; I've been using the Microsoft Ergonomic keyboards for what feels like the past 10-15 years now: http://xahlee.info/kbd/microsoft_ergonomic_keyboard.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/microsoft_ergonomic_keyboard.html Every time I change job I bring my own with me, or persuade the company to buy me one. I did experiment with an actually-split keyboard back in the late 90s; two pieces joined by a short cable, but it was really difficult to use and so I gave up on it almost immediately. My memory was that there was only a short/stubby space-bar on the left-half of the keyboard too. (I'm a touch typist, and I definitely use both thumbs for pressing the space bar. Albeit I use my dominant hand most of the time.)
- noir_lord 6y ago
  I did the same at every job for the last decade - either work buys an Ergo 4000 or I buy an Ergo 4000 and clear it with IT (honestly that was one place, I did it out of courtesy, I just took the new sealed in box to where IT sat and asked "ok if I use this?" and they said sure). These days I'm WFH forever and can use whatever the hell I want (work issues a stipend for hardware). The Ergo 4000 is such a large part of my computing experience that I have a stockpile of new in box units as a hedge against their eventual discontinuation. I've yet to have one die though, I wear the letters off fairly quickly but otherwise they are tough little beasts and easy enough to take apart and clean.
  - Tepix 6y ago
    They have been discontinued. Also i've had a few degrade after a few years and one died of water damage. If only they had nice switches...
    - noir_lord 6y ago
      That is a shame. Then my strategic keyboard reserve is about to be useful. Based on current MTBF I'll be buying USB-K adapters for these in my senility.
karmelapple 6y ago
I’ve used this for almost 8 years now, and it’s both easy to bring with on a trip, and comfortable at home. Is this the Goldtouch you’re talking about? Goldtouch GTP-0044 Go!2 Mobile Keyboard, Portable Foldable Travel Keyboard with USB https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DT73FVM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_YT6BMDG60Y28MTCJ8NS8 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DT73FVM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_...
lostdog 6y ago
The only truth about ergonomics is that everyone needs different things. I used a goldtouch for years to manage some early RSI symptoms. In the beginning it helped a lot, but later my symptoms changed a bit and it stopped helping. Elevating my wrists to reach the tenting position was causing more problems then the keyboard was helping. I switched over to a Kinesis and it has helped me tremendously. It probably still works for some people! I know we have some Microsoft ergonomic keyboard fans on this site, so maybe the author shouldn't poo-poo so many of these.
ZeroGravitas 6y ago
I think the Kenesis Freestyle (all variants) does tent? It's just an optional add-on, not part of the base kit. And I assumed having the mass-market ones grouped was mostly intended to let you filter the other ones out (assuming you're trying to buy one, and not just read about wacky historical curiousities). At least how I used it when recently exploring this market (in the end I decided to stick with my Kinesis Advantage, though I did buy some new keys and o-rings to reduce noise slightly) edit: after looking for the Goldtouch review, I now understand what you mean. It's grouped under the the list of standard options that he has reviews for, not called out on it's own. But if it is basically just an inferior version of anothere near identical product, then I guess that's fair enough.
- sequoia 6y ago
  It does but only to 15 degrees, goldtouch tents to 30 which makes it more comfortable (to me). It’s not perfect and as I say I’m sure there’s something better, but the kenesis is not it if you like your hands closer to neutral (less rotated) as you type.
  - ZeroGravitas 6y ago
    Kinesis has a tenting kit that goes from 20 to 90 degrees in 10 degree steps. Again separate purchase which would need to be taken into account, but given my experience with their other products, it still sounds like a superset of the Goldtouch in many ways, I'm guessing it has a wider community for mods etc as well.
    - sequoia 6y ago
      Can you link this tent kit? The official one doesn’t seem to do that much. I am in the market for new options so I’d be happy to try that out.
      - ZeroGravitas 6y ago
        https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/freestyle2-keyboard/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/freestyle2-keyboard/ At the bottom it lists the 3 different tenting kits: 5, 10, 15 degrees 5, 10, 15 degrees with wrist rests 20 - 90 degrees https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/freestyle2-keyboard/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/freestyle2-keyboard/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-v3-accessory/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-v3-accessory/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-vip3-accessory/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-vip3-accessory/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-ascent-accessory/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-ascent-accessory/ The first two addons are available for the Freestyle Pro, but not the 20-90 degree tenting, which is incompatible with that and the bluetooth version of the Freestyle 2 (due to the metal plate interfering with the signal)
maurys 6y ago
I have a Kinesis Freestyle 2. And it does tent. With the optional VIP kit that is, but most everyone recommends you buy the two together. FWIW, I absolutely love the kinesis. I have 2 pairs and the older one is 4+ years old. It helped me hugely with RSI around my wrist and fingers. The other thing which really helped was classic strength training at a gym :-)
Symbiote 6y ago
I'm the author of the submitted site (although "remixer+maintainer" is more accurate – there was an older list [1] which I updated and converted to a gallery with filters). I'm not the author of the Goldtouch review [2] which I (indirectly) link to. A search for "best ergonomic keyboard" or similar returns articles from the New York Times, Forbes, etc [3]. These usually cover mass-produced rubber-dome ergonomic keyboards – the Microsoft Sculpt, Goldtouch, and so on. I didn't feel any need to duplicate this, though I will reconsider. This site shows mechanical split keyboards. Some of these are under the "mass produced" filter: the Kinesis and Ergodox etc. The intention is to show options your IT department should be willing to buy. It's not in any way intended to demean these products! [1] https://github.com/diimdeep/awesome-split-keyboards https://github.com/diimdeep/awesome-split-keyboards [2] http://xahlee.info/kbd/goldtouch_adjustable_keyboard.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/goldtouch_adjustable_keyboard.html [3a] https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbes-personal-shopper/2020/07/06/best-ergonomic-keyboards/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbes-personal-shopper/2020/07... [3b] https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/comfortable-ergo-keyboard/ https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/comfortable-ergo-...
helmholtz 6y ago
I'll add a dissenting voice. The only thing good about the goldtouch is the tenting. Which is brilliant, I'll concede. You can make it both tented, but also flat and split for a change. But the goldtouch involves So. Much. Chording. I have the v1, which makes it worse. The windows key is way the fuck to the left, making constant stretches necessary. Plus the fact that the thumb keys can only press space is a major ergonomic negative. It's also a membrane keyboard, meaning bottoming out all the time is required. It's a decent keyboard, and I'm glad it works well for you, but it isn't really god's gift to humanity either.

stevekemp 6y ago

I had the same feeling; I've been using the Microsoft Ergonomic keyboards for what feels like the past 10-15 years now: http://xahlee.info/kbd/microsoft_ergonomic_keyboard.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/microsoft_ergonomic_keyboard.html Every time I change job I bring my own with me, or persuade the company to buy me one. I did experiment with an actually-split keyboard back in the late 90s; two pieces joined by a short cable, but it was really difficult to use and so I gave up on it almost immediately. My memory was that there was only a short/stubby space-bar on the left-half of the keyboard too. (I'm a touch typist, and I definitely use both thumbs for pressing the space bar. Albeit I use my dominant hand most of the time.)

noir_lord 6y ago
I did the same at every job for the last decade - either work buys an Ergo 4000 or I buy an Ergo 4000 and clear it with IT (honestly that was one place, I did it out of courtesy, I just took the new sealed in box to where IT sat and asked "ok if I use this?" and they said sure). These days I'm WFH forever and can use whatever the hell I want (work issues a stipend for hardware). The Ergo 4000 is such a large part of my computing experience that I have a stockpile of new in box units as a hedge against their eventual discontinuation. I've yet to have one die though, I wear the letters off fairly quickly but otherwise they are tough little beasts and easy enough to take apart and clean.
- Tepix 6y ago
  They have been discontinued. Also i've had a few degrade after a few years and one died of water damage. If only they had nice switches...
  - noir_lord 6y ago
    That is a shame. Then my strategic keyboard reserve is about to be useful. Based on current MTBF I'll be buying USB-K adapters for these in my senility.

karmelapple 6y ago

I’ve used this for almost 8 years now, and it’s both easy to bring with on a trip, and comfortable at home. Is this the Goldtouch you’re talking about? Goldtouch GTP-0044 Go!2 Mobile Keyboard, Portable Foldable Travel Keyboard with USB https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DT73FVM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_YT6BMDG60Y28MTCJ8NS8 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DT73FVM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_...

lostdog 6y ago

The only truth about ergonomics is that everyone needs different things. I used a goldtouch for years to manage some early RSI symptoms. In the beginning it helped a lot, but later my symptoms changed a bit and it stopped helping. Elevating my wrists to reach the tenting position was causing more problems then the keyboard was helping. I switched over to a Kinesis and it has helped me tremendously. It probably still works for some people! I know we have some Microsoft ergonomic keyboard fans on this site, so maybe the author shouldn't poo-poo so many of these.

ZeroGravitas 6y ago

I think the Kenesis Freestyle (all variants) does tent? It's just an optional add-on, not part of the base kit. And I assumed having the mass-market ones grouped was mostly intended to let you filter the other ones out (assuming you're trying to buy one, and not just read about wacky historical curiousities). At least how I used it when recently exploring this market (in the end I decided to stick with my Kinesis Advantage, though I did buy some new keys and o-rings to reduce noise slightly) edit: after looking for the Goldtouch review, I now understand what you mean. It's grouped under the the list of standard options that he has reviews for, not called out on it's own. But if it is basically just an inferior version of anothere near identical product, then I guess that's fair enough.

sequoia 6y ago
It does but only to 15 degrees, goldtouch tents to 30 which makes it more comfortable (to me). It’s not perfect and as I say I’m sure there’s something better, but the kenesis is not it if you like your hands closer to neutral (less rotated) as you type.
- ZeroGravitas 6y ago
  Kinesis has a tenting kit that goes from 20 to 90 degrees in 10 degree steps. Again separate purchase which would need to be taken into account, but given my experience with their other products, it still sounds like a superset of the Goldtouch in many ways, I'm guessing it has a wider community for mods etc as well.
  - sequoia 6y ago
    Can you link this tent kit? The official one doesn’t seem to do that much. I am in the market for new options so I’d be happy to try that out.
    - ZeroGravitas 6y ago
      https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/freestyle2-keyboard/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/freestyle2-keyboard/ At the bottom it lists the 3 different tenting kits: 5, 10, 15 degrees 5, 10, 15 degrees with wrist rests 20 - 90 degrees https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/freestyle2-keyboard/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/freestyle2-keyboard/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-v3-accessory/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-v3-accessory/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-vip3-accessory/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-vip3-accessory/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-ascent-accessory/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-ascent-accessory/ The first two addons are available for the Freestyle Pro, but not the 20-90 degree tenting, which is incompatible with that and the bluetooth version of the Freestyle 2 (due to the metal plate interfering with the signal)

maurys 6y ago

I have a Kinesis Freestyle 2. And it does tent. With the optional VIP kit that is, but most everyone recommends you buy the two together. FWIW, I absolutely love the kinesis. I have 2 pairs and the older one is 4+ years old. It helped me hugely with RSI around my wrist and fingers. The other thing which really helped was classic strength training at a gym :-)

Symbiote 6y ago

I'm the author of the submitted site (although "remixer+maintainer" is more accurate – there was an older list [1] which I updated and converted to a gallery with filters). I'm not the author of the Goldtouch review [2] which I (indirectly) link to. A search for "best ergonomic keyboard" or similar returns articles from the New York Times, Forbes, etc [3]. These usually cover mass-produced rubber-dome ergonomic keyboards – the Microsoft Sculpt, Goldtouch, and so on. I didn't feel any need to duplicate this, though I will reconsider. This site shows mechanical split keyboards. Some of these are under the "mass produced" filter: the Kinesis and Ergodox etc. The intention is to show options your IT department should be willing to buy. It's not in any way intended to demean these products! [1] https://github.com/diimdeep/awesome-split-keyboards https://github.com/diimdeep/awesome-split-keyboards [2] http://xahlee.info/kbd/goldtouch_adjustable_keyboard.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/goldtouch_adjustable_keyboard.html [3a] https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbes-personal-shopper/2020/07/06/best-ergonomic-keyboards/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbes-personal-shopper/2020/07... [3b] https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/comfortable-ergo-keyboard/ https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/comfortable-ergo-...

helmholtz 6y ago

I'll add a dissenting voice. The only thing good about the goldtouch is the tenting. Which is brilliant, I'll concede. You can make it both tented, but also flat and split for a change. But the goldtouch involves So. Much. Chording. I have the v1, which makes it worse. The windows key is way the fuck to the left, making constant stretches necessary. Plus the fact that the thumb keys can only press space is a major ergonomic negative. It's also a membrane keyboard, meaning bottoming out all the time is required. It's a decent keyboard, and I'm glad it works well for you, but it isn't really god's gift to humanity either.