6 ms·

Why hire an Ethics team if you won't let them interrogate unethical behavior?

by thirtyseven 6y ago

Cacti 6y ago
Yeah, that's not why they were fired.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  Well, that’s not why Google says they were fired. But then, if it was, Google would defeat the purpose by admitting it.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> Why hire an Ethics team if you won't let them interrogate unethical behavior? The same reason to hire a token minority in a position of on-paper significance: something to point to for PR purposes. But, with an ethics team, there's also another advantage; if you get strong people who would be contributing to the field anyway and constrain their output to suit your interests, you reduce the degree to which areas you wish to exploit come under ethical scrutiny.
- thirtyseven 6y ago
  Seems to defeat the purpose then if the company's response to any criticism is firing them.
- worker767424 6y ago
  The real question is why would you join an ethics team that's obviously for PR purposes, then complain about it being for PR purposes. These resigned/fired researchers might be good in their field, but they're pretty dumb when it comes to their jobs.
  - ulfw 6y ago
    Money rules the world
- chris11 6y ago
  Also, artificial intelligence is dealing with a lot of controversial issues. Things like privacy, data ownership, and discrimination. Government is getting involved. SF banned facial recognition, and both progressives and conservatives are accusing big tech platforms of bias. Having an internal ethics team they can claim is independent would probably be helpful politically.
D13Fd 6y ago
Interrogating corporate behavior and publicly embarrassing the corporation are two totally different things. You can employ someone and have them develop and even publicly espouse ethics principles, while also instructing them to keep their criticism of corporate behavior confidential to the corporation. This is super common in other professions sometimes charged with enforcing ethical and legal corporate behavior, including law and accounting. It's not a new idea.
- croissants 6y ago
  > This is super common in other professions sometimes charged with enforcing ethical and legal corporate behavior, including law and accounting. It's not a new idea. I'd be interested in reading about guidelines for people tasked with "enforcing ethical and legal corporate behavior" in other industries, do you have any references?
  - D13Fd 6y ago
    It's a huge field, but the core rules for lawyers are here: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibility/publications/model_rules_of_professional_conduct/model_rules_of_professional_conduct_table_of_contents/ https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibili... As one of many, many examples, leaders in the employment law field regularly write publicly about fair employment practices (particularly when it comes to discrimination, whether racial, age-related or disability-related), and strive for changes in the law and in employers' practices. At the same time, they also counsel their employers or clients about the rules and about compliance. That's fine. But a lawyer generally cannot publicly critique their employer/client without permission. Public disclosure of an employer's or client's confidential information without permission violates, for example, ABA model rule 1.6, and is a great way to get yourself disbarred (or at least face disciplinary action).
- thirtyseven 6y ago
  These were researchers though, their jobs were to publish papers externally.
- wpietri 6y ago
johncena33 6y ago
> Why hire an Ethics team if you won't let them interrogate unethical behavior? There is a huge difference between balatantly violating company policy, name calling your manager and creating drama online to garner attention and doing your job in professional manner. She knew what she was doing and she staged martyrdom for her Twitter mob audience and activist news media. It saddens me more is that so many people in this thread can't (or unwilling to) differentiate between doing your job in professional manner and creating drama online. Sigh, it will only get worse.

Why hire an Ethics team if you won't let them interrogate unethical behavior?

Cacti 6y ago

Yeah, that's not why they were fired.

dragonwriter 6y ago
Well, that’s not why Google says they were fired. But then, if it was, Google would defeat the purpose by admitting it.

dragonwriter 6y ago

> Why hire an Ethics team if you won't let them interrogate unethical behavior? The same reason to hire a token minority in a position of on-paper significance: something to point to for PR purposes. But, with an ethics team, there's also another advantage; if you get strong people who would be contributing to the field anyway and constrain their output to suit your interests, you reduce the degree to which areas you wish to exploit come under ethical scrutiny.

thirtyseven 6y ago
Seems to defeat the purpose then if the company's response to any criticism is firing them.
worker767424 6y ago
The real question is why would you join an ethics team that's obviously for PR purposes, then complain about it being for PR purposes. These resigned/fired researchers might be good in their field, but they're pretty dumb when it comes to their jobs.
- ulfw 6y ago
  Money rules the world
chris11 6y ago
Also, artificial intelligence is dealing with a lot of controversial issues. Things like privacy, data ownership, and discrimination. Government is getting involved. SF banned facial recognition, and both progressives and conservatives are accusing big tech platforms of bias. Having an internal ethics team they can claim is independent would probably be helpful politically.

D13Fd 6y ago

Interrogating corporate behavior and publicly embarrassing the corporation are two totally different things. You can employ someone and have them develop and even publicly espouse ethics principles, while also instructing them to keep their criticism of corporate behavior confidential to the corporation. This is super common in other professions sometimes charged with enforcing ethical and legal corporate behavior, including law and accounting. It's not a new idea.

croissants 6y ago
> This is super common in other professions sometimes charged with enforcing ethical and legal corporate behavior, including law and accounting. It's not a new idea. I'd be interested in reading about guidelines for people tasked with "enforcing ethical and legal corporate behavior" in other industries, do you have any references?
- D13Fd 6y ago
  It's a huge field, but the core rules for lawyers are here: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibility/publications/model_rules_of_professional_conduct/model_rules_of_professional_conduct_table_of_contents/ https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibili... As one of many, many examples, leaders in the employment law field regularly write publicly about fair employment practices (particularly when it comes to discrimination, whether racial, age-related or disability-related), and strive for changes in the law and in employers' practices. At the same time, they also counsel their employers or clients about the rules and about compliance. That's fine. But a lawyer generally cannot publicly critique their employer/client without permission. Public disclosure of an employer's or client's confidential information without permission violates, for example, ABA model rule 1.6, and is a great way to get yourself disbarred (or at least face disciplinary action).
thirtyseven 6y ago
These were researchers though, their jobs were to publish papers externally.
wpietri 6y ago

johncena33 6y ago

> Why hire an Ethics team if you won't let them interrogate unethical behavior? There is a huge difference between balatantly violating company policy, name calling your manager and creating drama online to garner attention and doing your job in professional manner. She knew what she was doing and she staged martyrdom for her Twitter mob audience and activist news media. It saddens me more is that so many people in this thread can't (or unwilling to) differentiate between doing your job in professional manner and creating drama online. Sigh, it will only get worse.