4 ms·

I don't think that's exactly what happened. From my understanding she was backing up emails that served as evidence to support the claim that Google had treated

I don't think that's exactly what happened. From my understanding she was backing up emails that served as evidence to support the claim that Google had treated Timnit Gebru unfairly during their termination. Not sure where that legally falls but I wouldn't exactly paint it in the light you did here.

asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
The legal way to handle that is for Dr. Gebru to sue Google and get the emails through discovery. (If Google didn't do anything that Gebru can/is willing to sue over, well, she doesn't have any legal right to the emails.) Exfiltrating confidential documents will get you fired, and saying you did it to assist a friend in badmouthing your employer on Twitter is not going to help matters.
- hitekker 6y ago
  The assumption that corporations, not courts, decide legality seems inane to me. The company you worship could commit a crime and then engage in a cover up to destroy all evidence before discovery could occur. The easiest, recent example is Ebay: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/26/technology/ebay-cockroaches-stalking-scandal.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/26/technology/ebay-cockroach...
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
    Sorry, by legal, I meant, "within the terms of your employment agreement."
    - Aeolos 6y ago
      > The assumption that corporations, not courts, decide legality seems inane to me. The law > employee agreement.
      - mpweiher 6y ago
        https://legaldictionary.net/contract-law/ https://legaldictionary.net/contract-law/
      - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
        If there's a law that permits exfiltrating confidential documents from an employer because you don't like one of their policies, I'd be happy to know of it. But I doubt such a law exists.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > legal way to handle that is for Dr. Gebru to sue Google and get the emails through discovery The not-quite-legal but defensible way might also involve openly forwarding those emails to her lawyer. Sending them anywhere else removes the shadow of doubt one needs when strategically but willfully violating a contract.
  - biztos 6y ago
    IANAL but I wonder, would this be a reckless thing to do without encrypting the data first? In any case, I would not do this in any form unless my lawyer said it was a good idea first. But I would also not post a poorly worded rant, with strange footnotes, trashing my employer, on my employer's own document-hosting service, and publicize it on Twitter as soon as I suspect I'm in trouble, so what do I know. [Edit:] I mean reckless because the email could theoretically be intercepted in transit.
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    It's quite legal in some jurisdictions. Multiple external accounts could mean her lawyer's account and her own. Or 2 accounts at her lawyer's firm. So we don't know if she sent them anywhere else.
    - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
      > It's quite legal in some jurisdictions In addition: legal and protected from termination are distinct.
chemeng 6y ago
If they were confidential documents and she signed an agreement indicating she would not expose or retain such property, legally, google has standing to fire her and sue her. But morally? She and others may feel it was the right choice, particularly if she felt that Google would not provide the evidence through the discovery process.

asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago

The legal way to handle that is for Dr. Gebru to sue Google and get the emails through discovery. (If Google didn't do anything that Gebru can/is willing to sue over, well, she doesn't have any legal right to the emails.) Exfiltrating confidential documents will get you fired, and saying you did it to assist a friend in badmouthing your employer on Twitter is not going to help matters.

hitekker 6y ago
The assumption that corporations, not courts, decide legality seems inane to me. The company you worship could commit a crime and then engage in a cover up to destroy all evidence before discovery could occur. The easiest, recent example is Ebay: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/26/technology/ebay-cockroaches-stalking-scandal.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/26/technology/ebay-cockroach...
- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
  Sorry, by legal, I meant, "within the terms of your employment agreement."
  - Aeolos 6y ago
    > The assumption that corporations, not courts, decide legality seems inane to me. The law > employee agreement.
    - mpweiher 6y ago
      https://legaldictionary.net/contract-law/ https://legaldictionary.net/contract-law/
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
      If there's a law that permits exfiltrating confidential documents from an employer because you don't like one of their policies, I'd be happy to know of it. But I doubt such a law exists.
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> legal way to handle that is for Dr. Gebru to sue Google and get the emails through discovery The not-quite-legal but defensible way might also involve openly forwarding those emails to her lawyer. Sending them anywhere else removes the shadow of doubt one needs when strategically but willfully violating a contract.
- biztos 6y ago
  IANAL but I wonder, would this be a reckless thing to do without encrypting the data first? In any case, I would not do this in any form unless my lawyer said it was a good idea first. But I would also not post a poorly worded rant, with strange footnotes, trashing my employer, on my employer's own document-hosting service, and publicize it on Twitter as soon as I suspect I'm in trouble, so what do I know. [Edit:] I mean reckless because the email could theoretically be intercepted in transit.
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  It's quite legal in some jurisdictions. Multiple external accounts could mean her lawyer's account and her own. Or 2 accounts at her lawyer's firm. So we don't know if she sent them anywhere else.
  - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
    > It's quite legal in some jurisdictions In addition: legal and protected from termination are distinct.

chemeng 6y ago

If they were confidential documents and she signed an agreement indicating she would not expose or retain such property, legally, google has standing to fire her and sue her. But morally? She and others may feel it was the right choice, particularly if she felt that Google would not provide the evidence through the discovery process.