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In what will be an entirely self-serving, "everything is evidence for my existing worldview" claim... ...I would promote race-blindness as the solution to this

In what will be an entirely self-serving, "everything is evidence for my existing worldview" claim... ...I would promote race-blindness as the solution to this. The more we talk about and focus on race, especially in a zero-sum context like "buy black-owned", the worse the racial tensions and competition will become. People confuse cultural power with economic power...just because many powerful people/businesses support black enterprise right now, doesn't mean the wider society will just blindly follow with fists full of cash. Racism is terrible. "Antiracism", with no regard to the actual outcomes, is hardly better. These businesses were not being harassed by awful people until Google tried to leverage them over their non-black-owned competitors.

ttt0 6y ago
> ...I would promote race-blindness as the solution to this. Don't you know that colorblindness is white supremacy? So good luck with arguing that. https://twitter.com/CoralineAda/status/1267529522041282563 https://twitter.com/CoralineAda/status/1267529522041282563 For those who don't know, this is the author of Code of Conduct and Hippocratic License.
- Igelau 6y ago
  See, I could probably get on board with being passively opposed to about half the stuff on that triangle. The other half is either outright bs or stuff I've never heard of.
- throwaway3699 6y ago
  "All lives matter" is white supremacy? That is the most tepid, centrist, mainstream view you could have. Literally the view of MLK For fucks sake, the US is lost if this continues, and I don't say that lightly.
GavinMcG 6y ago
Yes, antiracism must be measured by its effects. Google's campaign had antiracist intentions, and racist effects. That doesn't mean we should all give up on effective antiracism, though. This tactic/campaign/etc. was not antiracist. Others can be. It's not clear at all why this should be taken to mean that "the more we talk about race...the worse the racial tensions and competition will become." The conversation around race in the US has been ongoing for decades, and there are many objective metrics whereby things have not become worse.
- Wolfenstein98k 6y ago
  I could have been clearer but I meant to stress "in zero-sum contexts". Not all race discussion is necessarily bad/harmful in outcomes. However it sure does appear to me that in the last five or ten years, the manner of the conversation has degraded so much that very very little progress is made per unit of "increasing tensions". That is entirely subjective, but it is how it appears to me.
- throwaway3699 6y ago
  Racism must absolutely be measured by intention, not effects. The very definition of racism is somebody actively discriminating against another race. Any other definition just ends up discussing Marxist ideas like "systems of oppression" which go nowhere and actively harm the conversation.
  - GavinMcG 6y ago
    No, you'd like to define racism narrowly. Not that I can get in your head, but doing so sure makes it easier to imagine ourselves as not complicit. But evil is all too often banal, and passive.
    - throwaway3699 6y ago
      I'm not complicit. I've never been in a position of authority over hiring or loans, etc... nor have I ever treated anybody differently for their skin colour. Racism is about intent and your definition expands it well beyond what figures like MLK understood it to be. To do anything else is evil.
      - GavinMcG 6y ago
        MLK named "the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice" as "the great stumbling block in [the] stride toward justice." I'm not expanding a thing.
        6y ago
flippinburgers 6y ago
The rather old viewpoint of content of character over skin color is the only good way forward in my opinion. I find it to be a real tragedy that skin color has come under hyper focus in the last decade. I think it stems from a tragic mixture of deep desire to make things better (a good thing) and youthful impatience. Combined with the accelerated ability to disseminate ideas via the internet ... we are in an ongoing flame war that I never would have imagined. It makes me feel sick, sad, and frustrated.
rayiner 6y ago
> The more we talk about and focus on race, especially in a zero-sum context like "buy black-owned", the worse the racial tensions and competition will become. My dad was telling me this yesterday. He saw sectarian conflict growing up in Bangladesh, and working in international public health, he’s been to 70 countries and has had a chance to see ethnic conflict first hand. In his observation, emphasizing differences will increase rather than decrease conflict. Oddly, this is very similar to how colonial powers divided and conquered countries. They would emphasize differences between groups and treat them differently based on group membership, fueling animosity between them. Obviously the motivation for doing those things here in the US is different. But if you’re telling some kids they can go back to school and others have to stay in remote learning, based on the color of their skin, I’m not sure why would expect the result to be different. Measures like kids getting back to in person learning at different times based on skin color should worry people: see: https://www.wsj.com/articles/can-school-be-antiracist-a-new-superintendent-in-evanston-ill-has-a-plan-11601982001 https://www.wsj.com/articles/can-school-be-antiracist-a-new-....

ttt0 6y ago

> ...I would promote race-blindness as the solution to this. Don't you know that colorblindness is white supremacy? So good luck with arguing that. https://twitter.com/CoralineAda/status/1267529522041282563 https://twitter.com/CoralineAda/status/1267529522041282563 For those who don't know, this is the author of Code of Conduct and Hippocratic License.

Igelau 6y ago
See, I could probably get on board with being passively opposed to about half the stuff on that triangle. The other half is either outright bs or stuff I've never heard of.
throwaway3699 6y ago
"All lives matter" is white supremacy? That is the most tepid, centrist, mainstream view you could have. Literally the view of MLK For fucks sake, the US is lost if this continues, and I don't say that lightly.

GavinMcG 6y ago

Yes, antiracism must be measured by its effects. Google's campaign had antiracist intentions, and racist effects. That doesn't mean we should all give up on effective antiracism, though. This tactic/campaign/etc. was not antiracist. Others can be. It's not clear at all why this should be taken to mean that "the more we talk about race...the worse the racial tensions and competition will become." The conversation around race in the US has been ongoing for decades, and there are many objective metrics whereby things have not become worse.

Wolfenstein98k 6y ago
I could have been clearer but I meant to stress "in zero-sum contexts". Not all race discussion is necessarily bad/harmful in outcomes. However it sure does appear to me that in the last five or ten years, the manner of the conversation has degraded so much that very very little progress is made per unit of "increasing tensions". That is entirely subjective, but it is how it appears to me.
throwaway3699 6y ago
Racism must absolutely be measured by intention, not effects. The very definition of racism is somebody actively discriminating against another race. Any other definition just ends up discussing Marxist ideas like "systems of oppression" which go nowhere and actively harm the conversation.
- GavinMcG 6y ago
  No, you'd like to define racism narrowly. Not that I can get in your head, but doing so sure makes it easier to imagine ourselves as not complicit. But evil is all too often banal, and passive.
  - throwaway3699 6y ago
    I'm not complicit. I've never been in a position of authority over hiring or loans, etc... nor have I ever treated anybody differently for their skin colour. Racism is about intent and your definition expands it well beyond what figures like MLK understood it to be. To do anything else is evil.
    - GavinMcG 6y ago
      MLK named "the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice" as "the great stumbling block in [the] stride toward justice." I'm not expanding a thing.
      - 6y ago

flippinburgers 6y ago

The rather old viewpoint of content of character over skin color is the only good way forward in my opinion. I find it to be a real tragedy that skin color has come under hyper focus in the last decade. I think it stems from a tragic mixture of deep desire to make things better (a good thing) and youthful impatience. Combined with the accelerated ability to disseminate ideas via the internet ... we are in an ongoing flame war that I never would have imagined. It makes me feel sick, sad, and frustrated.

rayiner 6y ago

> The more we talk about and focus on race, especially in a zero-sum context like "buy black-owned", the worse the racial tensions and competition will become. My dad was telling me this yesterday. He saw sectarian conflict growing up in Bangladesh, and working in international public health, he’s been to 70 countries and has had a chance to see ethnic conflict first hand. In his observation, emphasizing differences will increase rather than decrease conflict. Oddly, this is very similar to how colonial powers divided and conquered countries. They would emphasize differences between groups and treat them differently based on group membership, fueling animosity between them. Obviously the motivation for doing those things here in the US is different. But if you’re telling some kids they can go back to school and others have to stay in remote learning, based on the color of their skin, I’m not sure why would expect the result to be different. Measures like kids getting back to in person learning at different times based on skin color should worry people: see: https://www.wsj.com/articles/can-school-be-antiracist-a-new-superintendent-in-evanston-ill-has-a-plan-11601982001 https://www.wsj.com/articles/can-school-be-antiracist-a-new-....