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I'm not interested in the details of this, but from a distance - people sure do make life difficult for themselves, bringing politics and their opinions and con

I'm not interested in the details of this, but from a distance - people sure do make life difficult for themselves, bringing politics and their opinions and controversy into workplaces. It's always tech and academia, too - you'd think it'd be enough to get just paid shitloads of money for interesting knowledge work and save the drama for friends in the pub (or the bar, or whatever).

minimaxir 6y ago
It's impossible to work on the ethics of AI without involving politics.
- Udik 6y ago
  I think it's perfectly possible. The issue here is that we've been confusing activists for ethicists for some time.
- benlumen 6y ago
  Well, maybe. But it's not like this sort of drama is unusual. Maybe you have to be outside looking in to see the absurdity (I'm not in Silicon Valley, or the US for that matter).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- refenestrator 6y ago
  Maybe it doesn't need to be quite so married to one particular set of politics.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- cobraetor 6y ago
  > It's impossible to work on the ethics of AI without involving politics. Wouldn't that conflict with Google's no-politics policy? https://www.businessinsider.com/google-community-guidelines-no-politics-2019-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/google-community-guidelines-...
  - Dirlewanger 6y ago
    Maybe it's better for the world that Google doesn't do anything AI research-related.
brailsafe 6y ago
Above a certain amount, unless you're a sociopath, selling your soul just makes you depressed.
- benlumen 6y ago
  I mean, I assume that most people doing these high-end jobs actually want to be doing them. If they've sold their souls, that's a seperate issue.
  - ineedasername 6y ago
    Lot's of people just chase the next incremental step up, compensation increase, etc. Their not even sociopaths, they just don't know how to find meaning in their lives in other ways.
  - brailsafe 6y ago
    I think I was not referring to arbitrary high paying jobs, but specifically the highest paying and possibly highest reach jobs, like ethical AI at the biggest tech company. The sociopath term may have seemed a little dramatic, but really, if you feel like there's more than just petty politics problems and you don't feel conflicted, that's concerning. Also was flippantly disregarding the tech as sufficiently compelling to ignore what you feel is really damaging if such a thing exists. I personally would have a high bar for technical work being sufficiently interesting, and a medium bar for keeping quiet. The immediate example I think of is that I'd have a hard time accepting FB money to write JS there, because of ultimately how they make money maybe or not respecting the ceo. Granted, I have no idea what it's like on the inside.
grumple 6y ago
I’m very vocal at work about all sorts of things. But to openly condemn your employer repeatedly on social media, steal data, then complain about the repercussions? How absurd. And this person is in charge of ethics for your company? I could not think of a more inappropriate position for such a person.

minimaxir 6y ago

It's impossible to work on the ethics of AI without involving politics.

Udik 6y ago
I think it's perfectly possible. The issue here is that we've been confusing activists for ethicists for some time.
benlumen 6y ago
Well, maybe. But it's not like this sort of drama is unusual. Maybe you have to be outside looking in to see the absurdity (I'm not in Silicon Valley, or the US for that matter).
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
refenestrator 6y ago
Maybe it doesn't need to be quite so married to one particular set of politics.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
cobraetor 6y ago
> It's impossible to work on the ethics of AI without involving politics. Wouldn't that conflict with Google's no-politics policy? https://www.businessinsider.com/google-community-guidelines-no-politics-2019-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/google-community-guidelines-...
- Dirlewanger 6y ago
  Maybe it's better for the world that Google doesn't do anything AI research-related.

brailsafe 6y ago

Above a certain amount, unless you're a sociopath, selling your soul just makes you depressed.

benlumen 6y ago
I mean, I assume that most people doing these high-end jobs actually want to be doing them. If they've sold their souls, that's a seperate issue.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  Lot's of people just chase the next incremental step up, compensation increase, etc. Their not even sociopaths, they just don't know how to find meaning in their lives in other ways.
- brailsafe 6y ago
  I think I was not referring to arbitrary high paying jobs, but specifically the highest paying and possibly highest reach jobs, like ethical AI at the biggest tech company. The sociopath term may have seemed a little dramatic, but really, if you feel like there's more than just petty politics problems and you don't feel conflicted, that's concerning. Also was flippantly disregarding the tech as sufficiently compelling to ignore what you feel is really damaging if such a thing exists. I personally would have a high bar for technical work being sufficiently interesting, and a medium bar for keeping quiet. The immediate example I think of is that I'd have a hard time accepting FB money to write JS there, because of ultimately how they make money maybe or not respecting the ceo. Granted, I have no idea what it's like on the inside.

grumple 6y ago

I’m very vocal at work about all sorts of things. But to openly condemn your employer repeatedly on social media, steal data, then complain about the repercussions? How absurd. And this person is in charge of ethics for your company? I could not think of a more inappropriate position for such a person.