6 ms·

Who? The name drop in the title implies we should know who a seemingly random Google employee is/was. And I actually followed the original story of the ethical

by maps7 6y ago

Who? The name drop in the title implies we should know who a seemingly random Google employee is/was. And I actually followed the original story of the ethical ai researcher getting fired. There's no info in the tweet other than "I'm fired". Is there reason to believe this was an unfair firing?

eat_veggies 6y ago
She was Google's other AI ethics lead. There were two (the other was Timnit Gebru), now there aren't any, I guess.
- madamelic 6y ago
  They are re-organizing the team. Presumably under someone else who will say and do what Leadership wants. Source: https://twitter.com/NicoAGrant/status/1362270504384487424 https://twitter.com/NicoAGrant/status/1362270504384487424
  - raspasov 6y ago
    Hopefully under somebody who doesn't constantly reinforce a victim mentality in minority groups which does nothing to actually help fix the problem but only makes it worse. From all the Twitter evidence, I support Google's decision here.
  - csomar 6y ago
    Are they legally required to hire a independent research? They are doing this for PR, so I expect their guy to say positive things (like, hey!, Google fixed things). There are circumstances where companies are required to hire people who could reveal bad things (ie: certified accounting auditors). But to hire someone outside of the legal requirements means they are a propaganda machine for the company. That's fair, if it's important, it's the government who should step up. Someone is getting a reality check.
  - bitcharmer 6y ago
    > Presumably under someone else who will say and do what Leadership wants. Or maybe under someone else who doesn't exfiltrate thousands of company's internal documents
viraptor 6y ago
The bio still mentions the position: > Founder/Lead, Google Ethical AI team; Interdisciplinary researcher focused on shaping AI towards long-term positive goals. The pinned tweet from Feb 6: > I am concerned about @timnitGebru 's firing from Google and its relationship to sexism and discrimination. I wanted to share the email I wrote to Google press the day my access was cut off. No reason to speculate without more details. I'm sure if it was unfair we'll get a follow-up (from her).
ggm 6y ago
There is unfair == against current employment law and norms. There is unfair == legal but retaliatory. There is unfair == legal, not retaliatory but stupid. Are you a reductionist, arguing There is no evidence this is unfair because to me, strict evidence aside,the causal chain as told in public strongly suggests its retaliatory,and, due to underlying issues which go to academic view of freedom and peer support Or are you just unwilling to accept this could be legal, but unfair and stupid? Nobody really knows is often better said as "this is speculative" if you don't like speculative statements, fine too. I love 'em. I'm not assuming this is unfair dismissal but it sure as hell looks retributive.
- khazhoux 6y ago
  The supporting articles state that she potentially emailed thousands of internal Google documents to external email accounts. That is clearly cause for firing, and potential legal action against her.
  - ggm 6y ago
    Yes. I said elsewhere, I'm pretty sure they have no legal fear regarding termination.
ABS 6y ago
you mean apart from her twitter bio next to that tweet (or a tap away, depending on how you access twitter) stating: "Founder/Lead, Google Ethical AI team; Interdisciplinary researcher focused on shaping AI towards long-term positive goals. Opinions my own."

by maps7 6y ago

eat_veggies 6y ago

She was Google's other AI ethics lead. There were two (the other was Timnit Gebru), now there aren't any, I guess.

madamelic 6y ago
They are re-organizing the team. Presumably under someone else who will say and do what Leadership wants. Source: https://twitter.com/NicoAGrant/status/1362270504384487424 https://twitter.com/NicoAGrant/status/1362270504384487424
- raspasov 6y ago
  Hopefully under somebody who doesn't constantly reinforce a victim mentality in minority groups which does nothing to actually help fix the problem but only makes it worse. From all the Twitter evidence, I support Google's decision here.
- csomar 6y ago
  Are they legally required to hire a independent research? They are doing this for PR, so I expect their guy to say positive things (like, hey!, Google fixed things). There are circumstances where companies are required to hire people who could reveal bad things (ie: certified accounting auditors). But to hire someone outside of the legal requirements means they are a propaganda machine for the company. That's fair, if it's important, it's the government who should step up. Someone is getting a reality check.
- bitcharmer 6y ago
  > Presumably under someone else who will say and do what Leadership wants. Or maybe under someone else who doesn't exfiltrate thousands of company's internal documents

viraptor 6y ago

The bio still mentions the position: > Founder/Lead, Google Ethical AI team; Interdisciplinary researcher focused on shaping AI towards long-term positive goals. The pinned tweet from Feb 6: > I am concerned about @timnitGebru 's firing from Google and its relationship to sexism and discrimination. I wanted to share the email I wrote to Google press the day my access was cut off. No reason to speculate without more details. I'm sure if it was unfair we'll get a follow-up (from her).

ggm 6y ago

There is unfair == against current employment law and norms. There is unfair == legal but retaliatory. There is unfair == legal, not retaliatory but stupid. Are you a reductionist, arguing There is no evidence this is unfair because to me, strict evidence aside,the causal chain as told in public strongly suggests its retaliatory,and, due to underlying issues which go to academic view of freedom and peer support Or are you just unwilling to accept this could be legal, but unfair and stupid? Nobody really knows is often better said as "this is speculative" if you don't like speculative statements, fine too. I love 'em. I'm not assuming this is unfair dismissal but it sure as hell looks retributive.

khazhoux 6y ago
The supporting articles state that she potentially emailed thousands of internal Google documents to external email accounts. That is clearly cause for firing, and potential legal action against her.
- ggm 6y ago
  Yes. I said elsewhere, I'm pretty sure they have no legal fear regarding termination.

ABS 6y ago

you mean apart from her twitter bio next to that tweet (or a tap away, depending on how you access twitter) stating: "Founder/Lead, Google Ethical AI team; Interdisciplinary researcher focused on shaping AI towards long-term positive goals. Opinions my own."