4 ms·

> PoS is still vaporware Why is that? Aren't Cardano and Polkadot PoS as they claim or doesn't it work?

Laforet 6y ago
No PoS algorithm has yet managed to solve the Nothing-at-stake problem, nor are they any more resistant to the abovementioned kind of hostile takeover by the nation state player compared to PoW. I can't speak for every PoS coin out there but Cardano/Ouroborous explicitly assumes partial synchrony which is arguably never a good idea for a supposedly permissionless blockchain.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  So PoS is vaporware because it hasn't solved a problem where the miners can act against their economic best interests and mine a fork? How does "there's a theoretical issue, and also it shares a problem with PoW" follow from "PoS is vaporware"?
  - gruez 6y ago
    > So PoS is vaporware because it hasn't solved a problem where the miners can act against their economic best interests and mine a fork? Not exactly. The point of "nothing as stake" attack is that you can pull off the attack while having... "nothing a stake".
    - StavrosK 6y ago
      Except the trust of the currency itself, as if you're attacking a currency you have a lot of stake in, you reduce the value of your stake because you attacked it.
      - Laforet 6y ago
        I'm pretty sure short selling crypto is still a thing. Loss of stake is jut another cost of business.
  - Laforet 6y ago
    There are no miners in a PoS chain, and PoS participants technically have nothing to lose through double forging. There are myriad different ways to find and punish the bad actors in such a situation. I don't claim to know about all of them, however they all make the same assumption you made that staked validators are rational people who look after their interest on the blockchain. But what if they are not rational, or worse, could make gains by disrupting the chain? This is far from a solved problem, and this is the reason why PoS coins exist mostly on the fringe and ETH is taking very slow baby steps towards a ETH2. Nobody is certain that PoS will stand the test of time and my prediction is that it never will. One might argue that they don't have to worry about anything judging from how well exchanges has been able to coordinate with the developers to pick a side whenever a major fork is spotted. But then it calls into the question whether we actually need a blockchain when a couple of interested party are the ones who gets to decide which fork is valid.
- bouncycastle 6y ago
  Nothing-at-stake problem is solved with slashing & inactivity leaks.

No PoS algorithm has yet managed to solve the Nothing-at-stake problem, nor are they any more resistant to the abovementioned kind of hostile takeover by the nation state player compared to PoW. I can't speak for every PoS coin out there but Cardano/Ouroborous explicitly assumes partial synchrony which is arguably never a good idea for a supposedly permissionless blockchain.

StavrosK 6y ago
So PoS is vaporware because it hasn't solved a problem where the miners can act against their economic best interests and mine a fork? How does "there's a theoretical issue, and also it shares a problem with PoW" follow from "PoS is vaporware"?
- gruez 6y ago
  > So PoS is vaporware because it hasn't solved a problem where the miners can act against their economic best interests and mine a fork? Not exactly. The point of "nothing as stake" attack is that you can pull off the attack while having... "nothing a stake".
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    Except the trust of the currency itself, as if you're attacking a currency you have a lot of stake in, you reduce the value of your stake because you attacked it.
    - Laforet 6y ago
      I'm pretty sure short selling crypto is still a thing. Loss of stake is jut another cost of business.
- Laforet 6y ago
  There are no miners in a PoS chain, and PoS participants technically have nothing to lose through double forging. There are myriad different ways to find and punish the bad actors in such a situation. I don't claim to know about all of them, however they all make the same assumption you made that staked validators are rational people who look after their interest on the blockchain. But what if they are not rational, or worse, could make gains by disrupting the chain? This is far from a solved problem, and this is the reason why PoS coins exist mostly on the fringe and ETH is taking very slow baby steps towards a ETH2. Nobody is certain that PoS will stand the test of time and my prediction is that it never will. One might argue that they don't have to worry about anything judging from how well exchanges has been able to coordinate with the developers to pick a side whenever a major fork is spotted. But then it calls into the question whether we actually need a blockchain when a couple of interested party are the ones who gets to decide which fork is valid.
bouncycastle 6y ago
Nothing-at-stake problem is solved with slashing & inactivity leaks.