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Electron should be banned for the environments sake if the other reasons doesn't persuade, it's inefficient computation to energy ratio using Electron apps, whe

Electron should be banned for the environments sake if the other reasons doesn't persuade, it's inefficient computation to energy ratio using Electron apps, when there is a lot of users like with VSCode or Slack it probably affects the global climate in a negative way

doctorbuttes 6y ago
Let's ban anything not written in assembly.
- yuanchenxi95 6y ago
  Second that
ajxs 6y ago
I see a lot of people in the tech industry deeply concerned with human impact on the environment and our diminishing prospects of repairing it without drastically altering our lifestyles. At the same time the general consensus in the tech industry towards the steady increase in power requirements for everyday computing seems to be indifference. These two viewpoints cannot be reconciled. Every month when this Electron discussion comes up there are so many who dismiss the egregious resource usage outright on the basis that it's trivial for modern computers. I'm one of those people who use Thinkpads in 2021 for my personal computing and have no problems with it. I will never buy a Mac, and I don't want to unnecessarily spend hundreds of dollars on a modern system when refurbished ones from a decade ago work so well. I avoid Electron apps on the basis that they flatten my battery quickly. I switched from using vscode to vim on my x200 and my battery life tripled, I'm not even exaggerating here either.
- slaymaker1907 6y ago
  No, they are completely reconcilable. The amount of power it takes to run a powerful consumer CPU is trivial compared to the amount of power used in many other common applications like heating, vehicles, etc. This effect is particularly pronounced when you consider that laptops use way less energy than desktops (on average) and mobile computing as a whole is displacing desktops outside of niches like PC gaming. The environmental issue doesn't make sense IMO, but increasing hardware requirements does have real impact on accessibility.
  - ajxs 6y ago
    These effects scale. If every single laptop uses a small amount more power than is necessary, the relatively minor increase in energy use for one computer totals up to a significant increase in overall energy usage. Not to mention the unnecessary obsolescence of hardware. The externalities of manufacturing new hardware - and disposing of old hardware - are extremely significant. Just so what? So my perfectly good 10 year old laptop has enough RAM to run 6 Electron apps at once? Sure, your ceiling lights use less energy than your fridge. That's not a justification for everyone to completely ignore turning them off when not needed.
    - FooBarWidget 6y ago
      Even if they add up, they still pale in comparison to the amount of energy you can offset with a couple of windmills.
3np 6y ago
No joke, if it weren't for the resource usage of vscode and the couple of other Electron apps I rely on, I wouldn't consider upgrading my workstation (which is already new enough to be energy efficient enough but maxes out at 24GB RAM) but here we are.
magnio 6y ago
> it's inefficient computation to energy ratio Probably true. > affects the global climate in a negative way If electricity consumption of all computers in the world doubled because of Electron apps, the total annual electricity consumption would increase by 0.01%. So probably false.
- jcelerier 6y ago
  In 2012 PCs (only PCs, not network appliances, not data centers, not phones...) were estimated at 1.5% of global electricity use, so you're off by a good margin. And that is deeefinitely not negligible, nor is the need (and eco impact) to buy newer computers because a 2016 MacBook Pro is unusable when your work requires 4/5 electron apps side by side.
  - magnio 6y ago
    I stand corrected. Turns out I forgot to multiply by 365 days/year. The real figure is indeed in the ballpark of 2%.
GuB-42 6y ago
Maybe not banned but they could do a carbon tax like they do with motor vehicles. Or maybe like with appliances where you have an energy rating, with stickers telling you how much electricity it will use per year, possibly with tax incentives to pick the most efficient. Problem is: how to test that? Even with the most straightforward tests, there are cheaters. Appliances have a special "eco" mode to meet the specs that most people won't use because it barely does the job. And for cars, well, VW have shown us how far companies are ready to go.

doctorbuttes 6y ago

Let's ban anything not written in assembly.

yuanchenxi95 6y ago
Second that

ajxs 6y ago

I see a lot of people in the tech industry deeply concerned with human impact on the environment and our diminishing prospects of repairing it without drastically altering our lifestyles. At the same time the general consensus in the tech industry towards the steady increase in power requirements for everyday computing seems to be indifference. These two viewpoints cannot be reconciled. Every month when this Electron discussion comes up there are so many who dismiss the egregious resource usage outright on the basis that it's trivial for modern computers. I'm one of those people who use Thinkpads in 2021 for my personal computing and have no problems with it. I will never buy a Mac, and I don't want to unnecessarily spend hundreds of dollars on a modern system when refurbished ones from a decade ago work so well. I avoid Electron apps on the basis that they flatten my battery quickly. I switched from using vscode to vim on my x200 and my battery life tripled, I'm not even exaggerating here either.

slaymaker1907 6y ago
No, they are completely reconcilable. The amount of power it takes to run a powerful consumer CPU is trivial compared to the amount of power used in many other common applications like heating, vehicles, etc. This effect is particularly pronounced when you consider that laptops use way less energy than desktops (on average) and mobile computing as a whole is displacing desktops outside of niches like PC gaming. The environmental issue doesn't make sense IMO, but increasing hardware requirements does have real impact on accessibility.
- ajxs 6y ago
  These effects scale. If every single laptop uses a small amount more power than is necessary, the relatively minor increase in energy use for one computer totals up to a significant increase in overall energy usage. Not to mention the unnecessary obsolescence of hardware. The externalities of manufacturing new hardware - and disposing of old hardware - are extremely significant. Just so what? So my perfectly good 10 year old laptop has enough RAM to run 6 Electron apps at once? Sure, your ceiling lights use less energy than your fridge. That's not a justification for everyone to completely ignore turning them off when not needed.
  - FooBarWidget 6y ago
    Even if they add up, they still pale in comparison to the amount of energy you can offset with a couple of windmills.

3np 6y ago

No joke, if it weren't for the resource usage of vscode and the couple of other Electron apps I rely on, I wouldn't consider upgrading my workstation (which is already new enough to be energy efficient enough but maxes out at 24GB RAM) but here we are.

magnio 6y ago

> it's inefficient computation to energy ratio Probably true. > affects the global climate in a negative way If electricity consumption of all computers in the world doubled because of Electron apps, the total annual electricity consumption would increase by 0.01%. So probably false.

jcelerier 6y ago
In 2012 PCs (only PCs, not network appliances, not data centers, not phones...) were estimated at 1.5% of global electricity use, so you're off by a good margin. And that is deeefinitely not negligible, nor is the need (and eco impact) to buy newer computers because a 2016 MacBook Pro is unusable when your work requires 4/5 electron apps side by side.
- magnio 6y ago
  I stand corrected. Turns out I forgot to multiply by 365 days/year. The real figure is indeed in the ballpark of 2%.

GuB-42 6y ago

Maybe not banned but they could do a carbon tax like they do with motor vehicles. Or maybe like with appliances where you have an energy rating, with stickers telling you how much electricity it will use per year, possibly with tax incentives to pick the most efficient. Problem is: how to test that? Even with the most straightforward tests, there are cheaters. Appliances have a special "eco" mode to meet the specs that most people won't use because it barely does the job. And for cars, well, VW have shown us how far companies are ready to go.