7 ms·

> Note that China already controls ~65% of Bitcoin hash rate, so if they wanted to execute this right now, they probably could. When you say "China" do you mea

> Note that China already controls ~65% of Bitcoin hash rate, so if they wanted to execute this right now, they probably could. When you say "China" do you mean like an actor that can make coordinated decisions? Or just a geographic region? I'm asking out of curiosity because yeah there's a lot of miners in China across many geographic regions but I never saw any evidence that they even talking to each other, even less coordinated enough to agree on making a decision as drastic at attacking the Bitcoin blockchain.

flatline 6y ago
I think the concern is that the authoritarian Chinese government can exercise an awful lot of influence when they are inclined. For a supposedly decentralized system it's an awfully big risk.
nine_k 6y ago
The question is whether CCP has sufficient control over them. If it does not yet, it might consider working on that. OTOH I like the game-theoretic argument: they don't need to.
- Fnoord 6y ago
  A better question to ask is: 'is the effort worth the gain?'
  - hinkley 6y ago
    Is the theater of starting the process worth the concessions I can win? It's not bluffing if you're willing to do it. But it's a lot cheaper if you don't have to follow through. China is scary because of the big risks they're willing to take. Like giant earthquakes or drowning Shanghai if their hydro power system has the failure that western civil engineers have predicted.
generalizations 6y ago
I'd make a wild guess that when parent is talking about 'control', they mean that if a miner is located within China, the Chinese government has the ability to put a gun to that miners head and tell them what to do.
- gavrif 6y ago
  With that kind of control, they could just put a gun to anyone's head and ask them to start mining bitcoin and do it the way they want them to. It wouldn't have to depend on how many bitcoin miners are in China at the moment.
  - dontreact 6y ago
    Fortunately, it is immensely more difficult for the Chinese state to exercise its monopoly on force outside of Chinese borders.
  - nostrademons 6y ago
    It's a lot easier to point a gun to someone's head and say "Switch your equipment over to the network pipe that we give you" rather than point a gun to someone's head and say "Build a datacenter, secure an extremely large source of power, buy a few thousand Bitcoin mining boards, hook them all up in this extremely technical way, and then switch it over to the network pipe we give you." The gun in the head strategy works best when you're only asking your populace to do simple things. For complex, technical tasks, the usual response is "Oops, I can't concentrate while you've got a gun against my head", and then you can shoot them but that's not going to help your task get accomplished any quicker. (This is also why working conditions at say Google or Apple tend to be pretty good, and why Soviet scientists were treated relatively well even if the rest of the population wasn't.)
    - nzmsv 6y ago
      Relatively well is, well, relative :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharashka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharashka
  - deleted 6y ago
justicezyx 6y ago
Same thing that a lot Chinese people thinking of the West. Like anything is coordinated behind thing, led by US, and followed up by the developed countries. Thanks for calling out this mental bias.
MattGaiser 6y ago
We are talking about China. There is a supreme actor who gets to make coordinated decisions if they so choose.

flatline 6y ago

I think the concern is that the authoritarian Chinese government can exercise an awful lot of influence when they are inclined. For a supposedly decentralized system it's an awfully big risk.

nine_k 6y ago

The question is whether CCP has sufficient control over them. If it does not yet, it might consider working on that. OTOH I like the game-theoretic argument: they don't need to.

Fnoord 6y ago
A better question to ask is: 'is the effort worth the gain?'
- hinkley 6y ago
  Is the theater of starting the process worth the concessions I can win? It's not bluffing if you're willing to do it. But it's a lot cheaper if you don't have to follow through. China is scary because of the big risks they're willing to take. Like giant earthquakes or drowning Shanghai if their hydro power system has the failure that western civil engineers have predicted.

generalizations 6y ago

I'd make a wild guess that when parent is talking about 'control', they mean that if a miner is located within China, the Chinese government has the ability to put a gun to that miners head and tell them what to do.

gavrif 6y ago
With that kind of control, they could just put a gun to anyone's head and ask them to start mining bitcoin and do it the way they want them to. It wouldn't have to depend on how many bitcoin miners are in China at the moment.
- dontreact 6y ago
  Fortunately, it is immensely more difficult for the Chinese state to exercise its monopoly on force outside of Chinese borders.
- nostrademons 6y ago
  It's a lot easier to point a gun to someone's head and say "Switch your equipment over to the network pipe that we give you" rather than point a gun to someone's head and say "Build a datacenter, secure an extremely large source of power, buy a few thousand Bitcoin mining boards, hook them all up in this extremely technical way, and then switch it over to the network pipe we give you." The gun in the head strategy works best when you're only asking your populace to do simple things. For complex, technical tasks, the usual response is "Oops, I can't concentrate while you've got a gun against my head", and then you can shoot them but that's not going to help your task get accomplished any quicker. (This is also why working conditions at say Google or Apple tend to be pretty good, and why Soviet scientists were treated relatively well even if the rest of the population wasn't.)
  - nzmsv 6y ago
    Relatively well is, well, relative :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharashka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharashka
- deleted 6y ago

justicezyx 6y ago

Same thing that a lot Chinese people thinking of the West. Like anything is coordinated behind thing, led by US, and followed up by the developed countries. Thanks for calling out this mental bias.

MattGaiser 6y ago

We are talking about China. There is a supreme actor who gets to make coordinated decisions if they so choose.