6 ms·

It used to be the case that the theory for why people have depression was "people who are depressed don't have enough serotonin" (in very simple terms), and the

It used to be the case that the theory for why people have depression was "people who are depressed don't have enough serotonin" (in very simple terms), and the reason why SSRIs work was supposed to be that they increase levels of serotonin, but scientists have found that boosting levels of serotonin alone does not help with depression. Here's a good journal article on the subject https://sci-hub.st/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0149763415000287 https://sci-hub.st/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...

corin_ 6y ago
If that theory is definitely wrong, it hasn't yet worked its way out of common use. Examples: NHS current website "This type of medication [SSRIs] works by increasing the level of a chemical called serotonin in your brain." https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/generalised-anxiety-disorder/treatment/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/generalised-anxiety-disorder/t... Wikipedia "It is believed to work by blocking the re-uptake of the chemical serotonin by neurons in the brain." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paroxetine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paroxetine etc.
- Delk 6y ago
  I'm not sure that the reason why some (e.g. official) health information sources keep repeating that isn't just a combination of having an easy explanation and making a (benign) attempt to induce a placebo effect in unknowledgeable patients. If you either get massively technical about complex things that would make most laymen's heads spin, or shrugged your shoulders and said that we don't really know, you might miss on the potential psychological effects that you can get by projecting some kind of confidence.
wavepruner 6y ago
After a long battle with depression, this is how I interpret the phenomenon that "boosting" serotonin levels does not work. SSRI's do not increase the pool of available serotonin, they just artificially increase the amount that remains in the synaptic cleft, facilitating additional firing of the neuron (or for a longer duration, I'm not sure which). They do not increase a neuron's ability to synthesize serotonin and release it into the synaptic cleft at the appropriate time. SSRI's cause our neurons to reuse serotonin longer than they normally would, which is not how we evolved to use serotonin. The way this felt to me as a human interacting with the world around me was artificial happiness and artificial feelings of ease. I felt "better", but it didn't feel like it was grounded in anything real. I felt happy when happy things happened, but I also felt happy when sad things happened. Eventually it wore off and SSRI's no longer had any effect on me. I eventually tried tryptophan and B vitamins (specifically B6), which our bodies use to synthesize serotonin. I got a similar effect to when I first started SSRI's, but it felt real. I was able to be happy when something happy happened. But when something sad happened I also felt sad. This effect has endured for 4 years now. I have since found that I had a serious problem with a particular toxin which poisons many of the pathways involved with serotonin synthesis (among many many others including one of the most fundamental, the Citrate Cycle). A way around the poisoning is large doses of the appropriate nutrients. This is because the toxicity causes serious inefficiencies in their use by the body's biochemical pathways. This was my personal experience. Depression is caused by many factors and I'm sure what works for me would not work for many. It can be genetic issues, other kinds of toxins, and overwhelming amount of trauma, chronic infections, unhealthy relationships, etc. Or a combination of those.
- pschuegr 6y ago
  Can you post more about the cause? I'm not familiar with this toxicity as a cause of depression. Thanks!
  - wavepruner 6y ago
    Sure. I usually don't bring it up unless asked because it is very controversial. Chronic mercury toxicity was the cause. I've confirmed this diagnosis with dramatic improvement to chelation therapy. I've also done some novel testing that indirectly confirms the diagnosis. It's not something you can test for directly unless you start taking biopsies of tissues you wouldn't want to cut out of someone alive. It resides in "deeper" tissues, not in the blood. The effect of mercury on biochemical pathways has been mapped out quite extensively, and we even know what and why certain genes make some people more susceptible than others. Not something you'll find in mainstream medicine, but the research is extensive and still rapidly growing. Particularly in the toxicology and chemistry circles. I use a newer chelator called emeramide. It's currently in Phase II clinical trials and will probably be approved within 10 years. Although, it can be very dangerous if someone takes a too large of a dose, and the person pushing it through FDA approval does not seem to be fully aware of how bad it can be. Generally, the sicker you are the lower the dose you need to start on. This phenomenon is extensively documented in the Facebook groups where mercury toxic people discuss their experiences and results. Emeramide binds to mercury the strongest, but also chelates other toxic metals like lead and cadmium, so those could certainly be complicating factors. Especially lead, as I grew up in a home and neighborhood with lots of it. As for where the mercury came from, the timeline of my symptoms, animal toxicology studies, and it's removal in 2001, and more, all point towards the vax(inations I received as a child. For example, I had random and inexplicable symptoms as a kid like attacks of projectile vomiting without being sick, and bloody noses that would last for hours.
    - pschuegr 6y ago
      Thanks for the context, very interesting. When did you get those shots as a child (ie what year, if you don't mind), and do you have any sense of which ones might have been the cause?

corin_ 6y ago

If that theory is definitely wrong, it hasn't yet worked its way out of common use. Examples: NHS current website "This type of medication [SSRIs] works by increasing the level of a chemical called serotonin in your brain." https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/generalised-anxiety-disorder/treatment/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/generalised-anxiety-disorder/t... Wikipedia "It is believed to work by blocking the re-uptake of the chemical serotonin by neurons in the brain." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paroxetine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paroxetine etc.

Delk 6y ago
I'm not sure that the reason why some (e.g. official) health information sources keep repeating that isn't just a combination of having an easy explanation and making a (benign) attempt to induce a placebo effect in unknowledgeable patients. If you either get massively technical about complex things that would make most laymen's heads spin, or shrugged your shoulders and said that we don't really know, you might miss on the potential psychological effects that you can get by projecting some kind of confidence.

wavepruner 6y ago

After a long battle with depression, this is how I interpret the phenomenon that "boosting" serotonin levels does not work. SSRI's do not increase the pool of available serotonin, they just artificially increase the amount that remains in the synaptic cleft, facilitating additional firing of the neuron (or for a longer duration, I'm not sure which). They do not increase a neuron's ability to synthesize serotonin and release it into the synaptic cleft at the appropriate time. SSRI's cause our neurons to reuse serotonin longer than they normally would, which is not how we evolved to use serotonin. The way this felt to me as a human interacting with the world around me was artificial happiness and artificial feelings of ease. I felt "better", but it didn't feel like it was grounded in anything real. I felt happy when happy things happened, but I also felt happy when sad things happened. Eventually it wore off and SSRI's no longer had any effect on me. I eventually tried tryptophan and B vitamins (specifically B6), which our bodies use to synthesize serotonin. I got a similar effect to when I first started SSRI's, but it felt real. I was able to be happy when something happy happened. But when something sad happened I also felt sad. This effect has endured for 4 years now. I have since found that I had a serious problem with a particular toxin which poisons many of the pathways involved with serotonin synthesis (among many many others including one of the most fundamental, the Citrate Cycle). A way around the poisoning is large doses of the appropriate nutrients. This is because the toxicity causes serious inefficiencies in their use by the body's biochemical pathways. This was my personal experience. Depression is caused by many factors and I'm sure what works for me would not work for many. It can be genetic issues, other kinds of toxins, and overwhelming amount of trauma, chronic infections, unhealthy relationships, etc. Or a combination of those.

pschuegr 6y ago
Can you post more about the cause? I'm not familiar with this toxicity as a cause of depression. Thanks!
- wavepruner 6y ago
  Sure. I usually don't bring it up unless asked because it is very controversial. Chronic mercury toxicity was the cause. I've confirmed this diagnosis with dramatic improvement to chelation therapy. I've also done some novel testing that indirectly confirms the diagnosis. It's not something you can test for directly unless you start taking biopsies of tissues you wouldn't want to cut out of someone alive. It resides in "deeper" tissues, not in the blood. The effect of mercury on biochemical pathways has been mapped out quite extensively, and we even know what and why certain genes make some people more susceptible than others. Not something you'll find in mainstream medicine, but the research is extensive and still rapidly growing. Particularly in the toxicology and chemistry circles. I use a newer chelator called emeramide. It's currently in Phase II clinical trials and will probably be approved within 10 years. Although, it can be very dangerous if someone takes a too large of a dose, and the person pushing it through FDA approval does not seem to be fully aware of how bad it can be. Generally, the sicker you are the lower the dose you need to start on. This phenomenon is extensively documented in the Facebook groups where mercury toxic people discuss their experiences and results. Emeramide binds to mercury the strongest, but also chelates other toxic metals like lead and cadmium, so those could certainly be complicating factors. Especially lead, as I grew up in a home and neighborhood with lots of it. As for where the mercury came from, the timeline of my symptoms, animal toxicology studies, and it's removal in 2001, and more, all point towards the vax(inations I received as a child. For example, I had random and inexplicable symptoms as a kid like attacks of projectile vomiting without being sick, and bloody noses that would last for hours.
  - pschuegr 6y ago
    Thanks for the context, very interesting. When did you get those shots as a child (ie what year, if you don't mind), and do you have any sense of which ones might have been the cause?