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All the "what if" is always pegged to another currency. I don't know anyone that prices anything in just BTC (it's all BTC converted from USD or whatever, beca

by iamben 6y ago

All the "what if" is always pegged to another currency. I don't know anyone that prices anything in just BTC (it's all BTC converted from USD or whatever, because anything else would be madness) - and I don't know anyone that doesn't peg their bitcoin to what they'd get if they sold it for "real money". Which makes me think any endgame isn't going to be the utopian, governmentless, money-freedom future I keep hearing promised.

tux1968 6y ago
Not sure if it means anything, but the first thing I do when reading about the price of say some huge tunnel built in Europe is mentally convert the quoted Euro price to USD. Doesn't make the Euro any less real as a currency.
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  The fact that a European project was priced in Euros suggests that Euros are more of a currency than BTC. Converting to USD is a matter of convenience for you. But within the European economy that same project would have a near comparable EUR price in 12 months as it does today. That is not true for things priced in BTC as the value of the BTC is wildly fluctuating (though generally trending up). Please find a contemporary (don't look to someone selling alpaca wool socks in 2010 and 2011), stable priced product line in BTC. Anything that I can be confident I will pay +/- 5% of the same BTC for over a 3 month period (I'm deliberately selecting a short period, most currencies are stable for 12+ months at a time when used to price goods and services).
  - tux1968 6y ago
    This is all new to me, and I don't have any interest in BTC at all. But volatility and crazy inflation does happen in the realm of real currencies. BTC is unique because it's happening at the start of its existence rather than in the traditional death-spiral. Nor is currency speculation unique to BTC, it happens every day with traditional currencies. But maybe BTC can be forgiven for its volatility since it's such a unique and new concept? As I understand it at some point there will be no new bitcoin left to mine, and it will just be available as a store-of-value currency -- if I have the concept correct. And the early adopters will be financially rewarded for helping to get it off the ground as they spend their BTC away into circulation.
- SpelingBeeChamp 6y ago
  What makes BTC 'less real' is that you can't use it to pay the IRS. It's all fun and games until you don't pay taxes, or you try to pay taxes using currency not recognized by the government.
  - tux1968 6y ago
    I don't think you can pay in Euros either, you'd have to convert them to good ole USD first, just like BTC.
    - pedrmsilva 6y ago
      Excuse me? Well, you see, you actually can pay taxes with Euros. In Europe. The USA isn't the only country in the world.
      - tux1968 6y ago
        What point are you trying to make? The question was about paying taxes to the IRS, which is the American tax collection agency. The assertion was that Euro's were acceptable to the IRS while BTC was not, but that actually is incorrect.
alwillis 6y ago
The Satoshi Standard: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/536xl9/satoshi_the_new_world_standard/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/536xl9/satoshi_the...
axiosgunnar 6y ago
I have thought about this as well but realised the following: Let's say you are Swiss and are trying to buy something from Amazon and everything is priced in Euro - you also have to convert all the prices in your head. Is the Swiss Franc not a real currency anymore?
noxer 6y ago
To "measure" value we need to know the purchase power. People have no feeling for the purchase power of a highly volatile asset. hence most people convert the value to their local currency. We do this with gold/stocks/crypto. there is hardly any "deeper" meaning in that. its just how our brain can grasp what could be bought with X amount of asset Y. If the stable currency would loos this property we would use another. Like if the USD would become highly volatile or if there would be hyperinflation people would no longer convert to USD. there are plenty places where the local currency isn't stable and people convert asset value to something else usually a foreign currency like the USD or EUR.

by iamben 6y ago

tux1968 6y ago

Not sure if it means anything, but the first thing I do when reading about the price of say some huge tunnel built in Europe is mentally convert the quoted Euro price to USD. Doesn't make the Euro any less real as a currency.

Jtsummers 6y ago
The fact that a European project was priced in Euros suggests that Euros are more of a currency than BTC. Converting to USD is a matter of convenience for you. But within the European economy that same project would have a near comparable EUR price in 12 months as it does today. That is not true for things priced in BTC as the value of the BTC is wildly fluctuating (though generally trending up). Please find a contemporary (don't look to someone selling alpaca wool socks in 2010 and 2011), stable priced product line in BTC. Anything that I can be confident I will pay +/- 5% of the same BTC for over a 3 month period (I'm deliberately selecting a short period, most currencies are stable for 12+ months at a time when used to price goods and services).
- tux1968 6y ago
  This is all new to me, and I don't have any interest in BTC at all. But volatility and crazy inflation does happen in the realm of real currencies. BTC is unique because it's happening at the start of its existence rather than in the traditional death-spiral. Nor is currency speculation unique to BTC, it happens every day with traditional currencies. But maybe BTC can be forgiven for its volatility since it's such a unique and new concept? As I understand it at some point there will be no new bitcoin left to mine, and it will just be available as a store-of-value currency -- if I have the concept correct. And the early adopters will be financially rewarded for helping to get it off the ground as they spend their BTC away into circulation.
SpelingBeeChamp 6y ago
What makes BTC 'less real' is that you can't use it to pay the IRS. It's all fun and games until you don't pay taxes, or you try to pay taxes using currency not recognized by the government.
- tux1968 6y ago
  I don't think you can pay in Euros either, you'd have to convert them to good ole USD first, just like BTC.
  - pedrmsilva 6y ago
    Excuse me? Well, you see, you actually can pay taxes with Euros. In Europe. The USA isn't the only country in the world.
    - tux1968 6y ago
      What point are you trying to make? The question was about paying taxes to the IRS, which is the American tax collection agency. The assertion was that Euro's were acceptable to the IRS while BTC was not, but that actually is incorrect.

alwillis 6y ago

The Satoshi Standard: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/536xl9/satoshi_the_new_world_standard/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/536xl9/satoshi_the...

axiosgunnar 6y ago

I have thought about this as well but realised the following: Let's say you are Swiss and are trying to buy something from Amazon and everything is priced in Euro - you also have to convert all the prices in your head. Is the Swiss Franc not a real currency anymore?

noxer 6y ago

To "measure" value we need to know the purchase power. People have no feeling for the purchase power of a highly volatile asset. hence most people convert the value to their local currency. We do this with gold/stocks/crypto. there is hardly any "deeper" meaning in that. its just how our brain can grasp what could be bought with X amount of asset Y. If the stable currency would loos this property we would use another. Like if the USD would become highly volatile or if there would be hyperinflation people would no longer convert to USD. there are plenty places where the local currency isn't stable and people convert asset value to something else usually a foreign currency like the USD or EUR.