7 ms·

I get the impression reading articles like this that the farm bills would certainly negatively impact farmer. See this quote from the article: >The country’s c

by as300 6y ago

I get the impression reading articles like this that the farm bills would certainly negatively impact farmer. See this quote from the article: >The country’s capital city has seen over four months of protest after Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government enacted agricultural laws that would adversely affect farmers across India. However, from speaking to people and watching interviews where people discuss *the actual bill itself*, the only answer I ever hear is something along the lines of, "this bill *could potentially* lead to things that are bad." I'm asking from a place of good-faith here, but what separates claims that the farm bill is bad from blatant fear-mongering?

senthil_rajasek 6y ago
"what separates claims that the farm bill is bad from blatant fear-mongering" My personal thought is lack of education, lack of raising awareness. Farming and selling produce directly at a physical market is straight forward. Commodity trading, futures, buyer-seller agents are all complex for poor subsistence farmers with a few acres of land each.
webmobdev 6y ago
> but what separates claims that the farm bill is bad from blatant fear-mongering? The same thing that separates claims that the farm bill is good based on the blatant propaganda of those in power.
- as300 6y ago
  I can't tell if you're being serious. If by your answer you mean nothing, are you saying that the farm bill panic is simultaneously both fear-mongering and push back against blatant propaganda by those in power? If by your answer you mean something else, why didn't you just say so instead of being so cryptic?
  - higerordermap 6y ago
    There are valid reasons, besides propaganda from both sides. Farmers can be rightfully afraid that they will eventually lose MSP guarantees, with Modi only giving lip service to MSP and not putting any regulations in place. Given the govt's tendency to ally with big corps, an Ambani / Adani oligopoly is a real danger as well. Of course there's blatant propaganda from both sides and those of us supporting one of these sides unconditionally are fools.
krtkush 6y ago
From what I have read and heard[1] is that these bills are mostly good and are what the country needs. Unfortunately, the current government's track record with implementing ideas is awful. Also, the country is divided and polarized to the hilt and therefore, no one is ready to listen to each other nor trusts one another. The Current government failed to introduce these laws in an amicable manner and their ego won't let the farmers have any other way. [1] https://seenunseen.in/episodes/2021/2/7/episode-211-the-tragedy-of-our-farm-bills/ https://seenunseen.in/episodes/2021/2/7/episode-211-the-trag...
strategyanalyst 6y ago
There is fear that this will reduce the degree of government subsidies that farmers recieve. Current yields of Indian crops aren't stagnant, but there are fears that water levels are too low to keep them rising fast enough for the coming rise in demand.So too much land on water consuming paddy crops may be bad in long run. Bill tries to push towards diversification by introducing agri markets that may raise investment in nontraditional crops. http://amp.scroll.in/article/821052/punjab-is-set-for-record-rice-production-this-year-but-at-a-heavy-price http://amp.scroll.in/article/821052/punjab-is-set-for-record... Fear is also that this will hit farmers in state of Punjab and Northern UP the most. They rely on a system of guaranteed crop buying by government. Moving to market model may lead to changes that proponents say will raise their income but they believe it will lead to corporations eating away the profits.
- higerordermap 6y ago
  Their fear is mostly about MSP (Minimum selling price) and lack of ability to negotiate with corporate buyers. There are indeed some monopoly dangers. And govt is hesitant to do anything about MSP but pay lip service. This combined with Modi's reputation for allying with big corporations is the reason for backslash. Of course there are political motives too..
nonamechicken 6y ago
I share the same fear farmers have in regards to corporations taking over things. I have seen documentaries that talks about how chicken farmers are at the mercy of 3-5 corporate monopolies in USA. So I don't know if the Indian farmers fear about corporations are entirely wrong. Having said that, I think the new laws are good for India. These are the arguments I have heard in favor of the new laws: One of the main arguments against the farm bills is that it will remove the minimum support price (MSP) guarantee which the government gives the farmers, and will put them at the mercy of corporations. India introduced the current MSP related system back in 1960 to inspire farmers to grow some crops when India had a huge shortage of food grains, and was importing grains directly from US (referred to as 'ship to mouth'). That is not the case now. India actually has a surplus of those grains. Also, MSP covers only 23 crops produced in India. For example, onion prices dropped to insanely low prices last 2 years. There is no MSP for them. Also, the MSP cover is available only in certain states, which puts other states at a disadvantage. To make things complicated, there is a law that guarantees certain grains at low price for the poor. For example, the law guarantees rice at 3 rupees to the poor. Govt has to buy the rice from the farmers because of the MSP system (say at Rs 20), and then in turn sell them to the poor at Rs.3 in a state which doesn't have MSP, thus putting the farmers in the non MSP states at a huge disadvantage. Another reason is that farmers are producing huge amounts of MSP crops such as wheat because the price is guaranteed, while ignoring other crops that India has to heavily import (such as pulses and oil seeds). The govt has to purchase the MSP grains no matter what, and the godowns have way more in stock than India could distribute (almost double or more last year). Also, some of these MSP crops like rice require lot of water for cultivation, and considering the shortage of water in most places in India, govt wants to reduce the farming of such crops. I got most of these info from this video (I believe this channel is neither right wing or left wing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9hSADKW3Cc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9hSADKW3Cc
- markdown 6y ago
  You keep using MSP, but haven't said what it is.
  - selimthegrim 6y ago
foolinaround 6y ago
There are some farmers (the richer ones from some states) that will lose out in this farm bill. The jury is out on whether it provides any benefits at all to the average farmer who hardly has any land to start with. also, the govt is seen as too cosy with business interests, and there is fears of a transfer of wealth to these corporates.
naruvimama 6y ago
My impression is just fear mongering for political gain. India had a power transfer from the British to the elite who used to work for the British as intermediaries. India has mostly been and is still dominated by these elites in most sectors outside of the free markets. They are worried about Modi taking away all these privileges that they have enjoyed for 70 years. So all these elements are ganged up against the BJP and Modi.
- notsureaboutpg 6y ago
  >They are worried about Modi taking away all these privileges that they have enjoyed for 70 years. >So all these elements are ganged up against the BJP and Modi. I have to say, this is a pretty misguided impression. Seems like you haven't actually read up on the farm bill. Your comment history seems to expose you as a BJP/Modi supporter who doesn't think much before proposing policies. Here's an excerpted comment of yours from a while back: >Put some armed sentry that shoots on sight,, no more refugees. >It is part of Turkey's strategy fill Europe with Muslims and them wanting to reinstate the Caliphate. I mean, I think that speaks for itself.
jskrn 6y ago
From a developmental economist's perspective: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/india-s-farmers-are-protesting-authoritarianism-disguised-capitalism-sound-familiar-ncna1258028 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/india-s-farmers-are-pr...
mathemagical 6y ago
Here is an article that goes into a lot of historical context and explains what is happening. It's a bit long but does a good job of explaining all the nuances, so it's worth reading to the end. https://www.fairobserver.com/region/central_south_asia/atul-singh-manu-sharma-india-farmers-protests-agriculture-sector-reform-green-revolution-history-15201/ https://www.fairobserver.com/region/central_south_asia/atul-...
- activatedgeek 6y ago
  This article sort of reasserts the same sentiment that the parent comment alluded to. Quoting a couple - > Some farmers worry whether the reforms might lead to the end of wholesale markets and guaranteed prices. > Farmers might go from the local monopsonies of the APMCs to the national oligopoly of Amazon-like behemoths.
amriksohata 6y ago
https://www.facebook.com/FISIUK75/videos/1136660920139534/ https://www.facebook.com/FISIUK75/videos/1136660920139534/

by as300 6y ago

senthil_rajasek 6y ago

"what separates claims that the farm bill is bad from blatant fear-mongering" My personal thought is lack of education, lack of raising awareness. Farming and selling produce directly at a physical market is straight forward. Commodity trading, futures, buyer-seller agents are all complex for poor subsistence farmers with a few acres of land each.

webmobdev 6y ago

> but what separates claims that the farm bill is bad from blatant fear-mongering? The same thing that separates claims that the farm bill is good based on the blatant propaganda of those in power.

as300 6y ago
I can't tell if you're being serious. If by your answer you mean nothing, are you saying that the farm bill panic is simultaneously both fear-mongering and push back against blatant propaganda by those in power? If by your answer you mean something else, why didn't you just say so instead of being so cryptic?
- higerordermap 6y ago
  There are valid reasons, besides propaganda from both sides. Farmers can be rightfully afraid that they will eventually lose MSP guarantees, with Modi only giving lip service to MSP and not putting any regulations in place. Given the govt's tendency to ally with big corps, an Ambani / Adani oligopoly is a real danger as well. Of course there's blatant propaganda from both sides and those of us supporting one of these sides unconditionally are fools.

krtkush 6y ago

From what I have read and heard[1] is that these bills are mostly good and are what the country needs. Unfortunately, the current government's track record with implementing ideas is awful. Also, the country is divided and polarized to the hilt and therefore, no one is ready to listen to each other nor trusts one another. The Current government failed to introduce these laws in an amicable manner and their ego won't let the farmers have any other way. [1] https://seenunseen.in/episodes/2021/2/7/episode-211-the-tragedy-of-our-farm-bills/ https://seenunseen.in/episodes/2021/2/7/episode-211-the-trag...

strategyanalyst 6y ago

There is fear that this will reduce the degree of government subsidies that farmers recieve. Current yields of Indian crops aren't stagnant, but there are fears that water levels are too low to keep them rising fast enough for the coming rise in demand.So too much land on water consuming paddy crops may be bad in long run. Bill tries to push towards diversification by introducing agri markets that may raise investment in nontraditional crops. http://amp.scroll.in/article/821052/punjab-is-set-for-record-rice-production-this-year-but-at-a-heavy-price http://amp.scroll.in/article/821052/punjab-is-set-for-record... Fear is also that this will hit farmers in state of Punjab and Northern UP the most. They rely on a system of guaranteed crop buying by government. Moving to market model may lead to changes that proponents say will raise their income but they believe it will lead to corporations eating away the profits.

higerordermap 6y ago
Their fear is mostly about MSP (Minimum selling price) and lack of ability to negotiate with corporate buyers. There are indeed some monopoly dangers. And govt is hesitant to do anything about MSP but pay lip service. This combined with Modi's reputation for allying with big corporations is the reason for backslash. Of course there are political motives too..

nonamechicken 6y ago

I share the same fear farmers have in regards to corporations taking over things. I have seen documentaries that talks about how chicken farmers are at the mercy of 3-5 corporate monopolies in USA. So I don't know if the Indian farmers fear about corporations are entirely wrong. Having said that, I think the new laws are good for India. These are the arguments I have heard in favor of the new laws: One of the main arguments against the farm bills is that it will remove the minimum support price (MSP) guarantee which the government gives the farmers, and will put them at the mercy of corporations. India introduced the current MSP related system back in 1960 to inspire farmers to grow some crops when India had a huge shortage of food grains, and was importing grains directly from US (referred to as 'ship to mouth'). That is not the case now. India actually has a surplus of those grains. Also, MSP covers only 23 crops produced in India. For example, onion prices dropped to insanely low prices last 2 years. There is no MSP for them. Also, the MSP cover is available only in certain states, which puts other states at a disadvantage. To make things complicated, there is a law that guarantees certain grains at low price for the poor. For example, the law guarantees rice at 3 rupees to the poor. Govt has to buy the rice from the farmers because of the MSP system (say at Rs 20), and then in turn sell them to the poor at Rs.3 in a state which doesn't have MSP, thus putting the farmers in the non MSP states at a huge disadvantage. Another reason is that farmers are producing huge amounts of MSP crops such as wheat because the price is guaranteed, while ignoring other crops that India has to heavily import (such as pulses and oil seeds). The govt has to purchase the MSP grains no matter what, and the godowns have way more in stock than India could distribute (almost double or more last year). Also, some of these MSP crops like rice require lot of water for cultivation, and considering the shortage of water in most places in India, govt wants to reduce the farming of such crops. I got most of these info from this video (I believe this channel is neither right wing or left wing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9hSADKW3Cc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9hSADKW3Cc

markdown 6y ago
You keep using MSP, but haven't said what it is.
- selimthegrim 6y ago

foolinaround 6y ago

There are some farmers (the richer ones from some states) that will lose out in this farm bill. The jury is out on whether it provides any benefits at all to the average farmer who hardly has any land to start with. also, the govt is seen as too cosy with business interests, and there is fears of a transfer of wealth to these corporates.

naruvimama 6y ago

My impression is just fear mongering for political gain. India had a power transfer from the British to the elite who used to work for the British as intermediaries. India has mostly been and is still dominated by these elites in most sectors outside of the free markets. They are worried about Modi taking away all these privileges that they have enjoyed for 70 years. So all these elements are ganged up against the BJP and Modi.

notsureaboutpg 6y ago
>They are worried about Modi taking away all these privileges that they have enjoyed for 70 years. >So all these elements are ganged up against the BJP and Modi. I have to say, this is a pretty misguided impression. Seems like you haven't actually read up on the farm bill. Your comment history seems to expose you as a BJP/Modi supporter who doesn't think much before proposing policies. Here's an excerpted comment of yours from a while back: >Put some armed sentry that shoots on sight,, no more refugees. >It is part of Turkey's strategy fill Europe with Muslims and them wanting to reinstate the Caliphate. I mean, I think that speaks for itself.

jskrn 6y ago

From a developmental economist's perspective: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/india-s-farmers-are-protesting-authoritarianism-disguised-capitalism-sound-familiar-ncna1258028 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/india-s-farmers-are-pr...

mathemagical 6y ago

Here is an article that goes into a lot of historical context and explains what is happening. It's a bit long but does a good job of explaining all the nuances, so it's worth reading to the end. https://www.fairobserver.com/region/central_south_asia/atul-singh-manu-sharma-india-farmers-protests-agriculture-sector-reform-green-revolution-history-15201/ https://www.fairobserver.com/region/central_south_asia/atul-...

activatedgeek 6y ago
This article sort of reasserts the same sentiment that the parent comment alluded to. Quoting a couple - > Some farmers worry whether the reforms might lead to the end of wholesale markets and guaranteed prices. > Farmers might go from the local monopsonies of the APMCs to the national oligopoly of Amazon-like behemoths.

amriksohata 6y ago

https://www.facebook.com/FISIUK75/videos/1136660920139534/ https://www.facebook.com/FISIUK75/videos/1136660920139534/