4 ms·

I definitely agree with your sentiment. If you're working on your own personal projects/startup, most of the time you aren't gonna choose Java, but another lang

by Hisoka 15y ago

I definitely agree with your sentiment. If you're working on your own personal projects/startup, most of the time you aren't gonna choose Java, but another language whether it be Python, Ruby, etc. But if you're in a corporation, you don't have the flexibility and freedom to choose what you want to work for. This association of corporate life with Java contributes to people's hatred of using Java. I bet if corporations started using Python, more and more people would hate Python as well if they had to use it on a daily basis for boring, business processes When I actually used Java in one of my first personal projects, i found it very fun to use. But when I had to use it in my first job, my interest and enthusiasm waned.

rbanffy 15y ago
> This association of corporate life with Java contributes to people's hatred of using Java. This association happens because the wrong people are defining which technologies will be used. When a manager makes manager-ish decisions, Java is what you get. Or Windows and .NET. > I bet if corporations started using Python, more and more people would hate Python Won't happen because a) Python is actually good b) The same people who make manager-ish decisions won't pick Python. > When I actually used Java in one of my first personal projects, I too had a more optimistic opinion of Java when I started playing with it. But then I remembered how it felt to program with Smalltalk (I learned OOP with it, later played with Actor on Windows). Then I met Python, and Zope and realized web development doesn't need to suck. The company I work for maintains several Java applications and a couple PHP and Django ones. The difference of productivity from the Java projects and the Django ones is absolutely shocking.
- andrewflnr 15y ago
  You really don't think Python is reaching the point where a manager type would be comfortable with it? It's mature, it has tons of libraries, it's used in all kinds of successful projects. I really don't know. It just doesn't seem anything like a high-risk choice to me.
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    No Python vendor will wine-and-dine the pointy-haired-manager, nor pay a trip to a conference. Oracle will.
    - andrewflnr 15y ago
      Good point.
reinhardt 15y ago
> If you're working on your own personal projects/startup, most of the time you aren't gonna choose Java ... for some values of "you", apparently ;) Lucene, Hadoop, Cassandra, Hudson/Jenkins, RapidMiner, GWT and a gazillion other best of breed open source projects have selected Java, for better or for worse.
- Hisoka 15y ago
  I never said all, I said most. Lucene, Hadoop and Cassandra are in the minority.
  - reinhardt 15y ago
    I doubt that Java open source projects are in the minority. GitHub [1] is far from a representative sample of the whole FOSS activity. [1] https://github.com/languages https://github.com/languages
    - reinhardt 15y ago
      That's funny, apparently I'm getting downvoted repeatedly for having the nerve to say that FOSS Java projects are not a minority. The irony is that I left Java behind for Python seven years and never looked back. If I was taking this votes/points/karma thing seriously I would be rather pissed, now I'm just laughing at the rabid fanboyism.

by Hisoka 15y ago

rbanffy 15y ago

> This association of corporate life with Java contributes to people's hatred of using Java. This association happens because the wrong people are defining which technologies will be used. When a manager makes manager-ish decisions, Java is what you get. Or Windows and .NET. > I bet if corporations started using Python, more and more people would hate Python Won't happen because a) Python is actually good b) The same people who make manager-ish decisions won't pick Python. > When I actually used Java in one of my first personal projects, I too had a more optimistic opinion of Java when I started playing with it. But then I remembered how it felt to program with Smalltalk (I learned OOP with it, later played with Actor on Windows). Then I met Python, and Zope and realized web development doesn't need to suck. The company I work for maintains several Java applications and a couple PHP and Django ones. The difference of productivity from the Java projects and the Django ones is absolutely shocking.

andrewflnr 15y ago
You really don't think Python is reaching the point where a manager type would be comfortable with it? It's mature, it has tons of libraries, it's used in all kinds of successful projects. I really don't know. It just doesn't seem anything like a high-risk choice to me.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  No Python vendor will wine-and-dine the pointy-haired-manager, nor pay a trip to a conference. Oracle will.
  - andrewflnr 15y ago
    Good point.

reinhardt 15y ago

> If you're working on your own personal projects/startup, most of the time you aren't gonna choose Java ... for some values of "you", apparently ;) Lucene, Hadoop, Cassandra, Hudson/Jenkins, RapidMiner, GWT and a gazillion other best of breed open source projects have selected Java, for better or for worse.

Hisoka 15y ago
I never said all, I said most. Lucene, Hadoop and Cassandra are in the minority.
- reinhardt 15y ago
  I doubt that Java open source projects are in the minority. GitHub [1] is far from a representative sample of the whole FOSS activity. [1] https://github.com/languages https://github.com/languages
  - reinhardt 15y ago
    That's funny, apparently I'm getting downvoted repeatedly for having the nerve to say that FOSS Java projects are not a minority. The irony is that I left Java behind for Python seven years and never looked back. If I was taking this votes/points/karma thing seriously I would be rather pissed, now I'm just laughing at the rabid fanboyism.