4 ms·

When the linked article says that 90% of respondents find a "zero-COVID" strategy unrealistic, it is all the more baffling that Scotland seems to have decided o

When the linked article says that 90% of respondents find a "zero-COVID" strategy unrealistic, it is all the more baffling that Scotland seems to have decided on it. Before the UK-wide roadmap could even be rolled out next week, Scottish officials have announced their own that is guided by this approach, in which borders will stay closed even with widescale vaccination.

411111111111111 6y ago
These kinds of articles always have to be taken with a grain of salt. The whole situation has become incredibly ... Political, so most stuff you hear is just created to further an agenda. I'm not saying that this virus isn't dangerous or easy to eradicate btw. I'm only taking note that a lot of the information/articles floating around is propaganda with some agenda. Which is disheartening, precisely because of the nature of this virus.
TerminalWarrior 6y ago
Scared people do silly things. Schools have stayed closed far longer than most health officials recommend. Many of our new daily routines are nothing more than "security theater". We know that kids essentially don't get sick and spread at very low rates and sterilizing surfaces, including using hand sanitizer, does little to nothing but we keep up up because we are scared.
randomsearch 6y ago
Can you link to an article saying this is the policy of the Scottish government?
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  Consider any of the coverage of the dispute between Scotland and Westminster on the hotel quarantine regulations, e.g. [0] Westminster is only requiring quarantine from a certain list of countries, while Scotland wants quarantine on all arrivals regardless of what country they come from. Sturgeon also said bluntly this week that international travel this summer is "highly unlikely", even though Westminster has been much more cautious about making such statements. The Scottish government has been particularly reliant on advice from Devi Sridhar at the University of Edinburgh, who wants a "zero-COVID" approach and says that allowing life to get back to normal within a country is worth Australian-style draconian border closings and quarantine obligations, even if they might last years. [0] https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/scotland-hotel-quarantine-all-air-passengers-sufficient-b919158.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/scotland-hotel-quarantine...
  - neilwilson 6y ago
    Given there is freedom of movement within the U.K. and that is a competency of Westminster not Holyrood, it’s going to be difficult for them to do that.
  - randomsearch 6y ago
    to be clear for others: zero covid is not the policy of the scottish government, as far as I can google or the reply can support.
    - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
      The Scottish government has called for obligatory hotel quarantine for all travelers flying in from everywhere à la Australia or New Zealand. That is pretty much the definition of the zero COVID approach.
      - randomsearch 6y ago
        Here's the definition from the zero covid website. (http://zerocovid.uk/founding-statement/ http://zerocovid.uk/founding-statement/) What is the Zero Covid Strategy? It means eliminating the spread of infection between people in the UK and putting in place measures to prevent or quickly staunch any further imported cases. Today that means four key steps: - A full UK-wide lockdown until new cases in the community have been reduced close to zero - An effective find, test, trace, isolate and support (FTTIS) system, run locally in the public sector, to quickly squash any further outbreaks - Covid screening, and where necessary quarantine, at all ports of entry to the UK - Guarantee the livelihood of everyone who loses money because of the pandemic
graeme 6y ago
There’s a big difference between zero covid globally and zero covid in a specific jurisdiction with good public health and border controls. The UK is an island and absolutely could have gone zero covid. I don’t think any island that aimed at it failed. But the UK had other goals and explicitly decided not to seek zero covid. Since Scotland had no interal border with England, zero covid wasn’t possible.
- throwaway4good 6y ago
  China has implemented zero covid.
  - yorwba 6y ago
    There were multiple localized outbreaks in border areas and cities with international airports, because of lapses in quarantine measures. If Scotland wants to implement a zero-covid policy while England doesn't, they'll need to limit all cross-border traffic to a trickle, with supervised quarantine for everyone who does cross the border, and they'll need to treat a large area behind the border as a buffer zone where a single case outside quarantine immediately results in a lockdown. Not impossible, but unlikely to be popular before it's successfully implemented.
    - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
      > Not impossible It might be. Scotland doesn't seem to have authority to prevent freedom of movement within the UK. In several countries, things like mask laws and business closures have been struck down by courts because it was found that the state doesn't actually have the authority to impose that.
  - graeme 6y ago
    China controls its borders. Scotland doesn’t. That was my point.
throwaway4good 6y ago
I think it is worth noting that for large number of people the lockdowns have been a boon (work from home, rising asset prices). The majority of the true cost is born by a tiny minority of people (people with no job security, self-employed within certian sectors, no assets).
- standardUser 6y ago
  "The majority of the true cost is born by a tiny minority of people" Do you truly believe that the millions of workers in food service, hospitality, etc are a "tiny minority"?
  - throwaway4good 6y ago
    Compared to the group of people doing alright, yeah, they are a minority.
- 1986 6y ago
  You've got the "large number" and "tiny minority" switched, I think.
standardUser 6y ago
"...borders will stay closed even with widescale vaccination" It will be interesting to see how long that policy holds when hospitalizations become minimal and deaths become incredibly rare. At a certain point, the borders will be closed to prevent the potential spread of the 10th or 20th most dangerous pathogen in a world full of pathogens.
- bluGill 6y ago
  Depends, if they can get to zero covid internally with a vaccine, but some new variant that the current vaccines don't handle well is circulating internationally it makes sense. Only time will tell if the above happens. There is great concern about a few variants, but nobody is sure yet.

411111111111111 6y ago

These kinds of articles always have to be taken with a grain of salt. The whole situation has become incredibly ... Political, so most stuff you hear is just created to further an agenda. I'm not saying that this virus isn't dangerous or easy to eradicate btw. I'm only taking note that a lot of the information/articles floating around is propaganda with some agenda. Which is disheartening, precisely because of the nature of this virus.

TerminalWarrior 6y ago

Scared people do silly things. Schools have stayed closed far longer than most health officials recommend. Many of our new daily routines are nothing more than "security theater". We know that kids essentially don't get sick and spread at very low rates and sterilizing surfaces, including using hand sanitizer, does little to nothing but we keep up up because we are scared.

randomsearch 6y ago

Can you link to an article saying this is the policy of the Scottish government?

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Consider any of the coverage of the dispute between Scotland and Westminster on the hotel quarantine regulations, e.g. [0] Westminster is only requiring quarantine from a certain list of countries, while Scotland wants quarantine on all arrivals regardless of what country they come from. Sturgeon also said bluntly this week that international travel this summer is "highly unlikely", even though Westminster has been much more cautious about making such statements. The Scottish government has been particularly reliant on advice from Devi Sridhar at the University of Edinburgh, who wants a "zero-COVID" approach and says that allowing life to get back to normal within a country is worth Australian-style draconian border closings and quarantine obligations, even if they might last years. [0] https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/scotland-hotel-quarantine-all-air-passengers-sufficient-b919158.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/scotland-hotel-quarantine...
- neilwilson 6y ago
  Given there is freedom of movement within the U.K. and that is a competency of Westminster not Holyrood, it’s going to be difficult for them to do that.
- randomsearch 6y ago
  to be clear for others: zero covid is not the policy of the scottish government, as far as I can google or the reply can support.
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    The Scottish government has called for obligatory hotel quarantine for all travelers flying in from everywhere à la Australia or New Zealand. That is pretty much the definition of the zero COVID approach.
    - randomsearch 6y ago
      Here's the definition from the zero covid website. (http://zerocovid.uk/founding-statement/ http://zerocovid.uk/founding-statement/) What is the Zero Covid Strategy? It means eliminating the spread of infection between people in the UK and putting in place measures to prevent or quickly staunch any further imported cases. Today that means four key steps: - A full UK-wide lockdown until new cases in the community have been reduced close to zero - An effective find, test, trace, isolate and support (FTTIS) system, run locally in the public sector, to quickly squash any further outbreaks - Covid screening, and where necessary quarantine, at all ports of entry to the UK - Guarantee the livelihood of everyone who loses money because of the pandemic

graeme 6y ago

There’s a big difference between zero covid globally and zero covid in a specific jurisdiction with good public health and border controls. The UK is an island and absolutely could have gone zero covid. I don’t think any island that aimed at it failed. But the UK had other goals and explicitly decided not to seek zero covid. Since Scotland had no interal border with England, zero covid wasn’t possible.

throwaway4good 6y ago
China has implemented zero covid.
- yorwba 6y ago
  There were multiple localized outbreaks in border areas and cities with international airports, because of lapses in quarantine measures. If Scotland wants to implement a zero-covid policy while England doesn't, they'll need to limit all cross-border traffic to a trickle, with supervised quarantine for everyone who does cross the border, and they'll need to treat a large area behind the border as a buffer zone where a single case outside quarantine immediately results in a lockdown. Not impossible, but unlikely to be popular before it's successfully implemented.
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    > Not impossible It might be. Scotland doesn't seem to have authority to prevent freedom of movement within the UK. In several countries, things like mask laws and business closures have been struck down by courts because it was found that the state doesn't actually have the authority to impose that.
- graeme 6y ago
  China controls its borders. Scotland doesn’t. That was my point.

throwaway4good 6y ago

I think it is worth noting that for large number of people the lockdowns have been a boon (work from home, rising asset prices). The majority of the true cost is born by a tiny minority of people (people with no job security, self-employed within certian sectors, no assets).

standardUser 6y ago
"The majority of the true cost is born by a tiny minority of people" Do you truly believe that the millions of workers in food service, hospitality, etc are a "tiny minority"?
- throwaway4good 6y ago
  Compared to the group of people doing alright, yeah, they are a minority.
1986 6y ago
You've got the "large number" and "tiny minority" switched, I think.

standardUser 6y ago

"...borders will stay closed even with widescale vaccination" It will be interesting to see how long that policy holds when hospitalizations become minimal and deaths become incredibly rare. At a certain point, the borders will be closed to prevent the potential spread of the 10th or 20th most dangerous pathogen in a world full of pathogens.

bluGill 6y ago
Depends, if they can get to zero covid internally with a vaccine, but some new variant that the current vaccines don't handle well is circulating internationally it makes sense. Only time will tell if the above happens. There is great concern about a few variants, but nobody is sure yet.