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This is an odd framing to me. The psychological toll is from there being a deadly global pandemic. I guess we could have made the choice to trade the toll of so

This is an odd framing to me. The psychological toll is from there being a deadly global pandemic. I guess we could have made the choice to trade the toll of social restrictions for the toll of even more people getting seriously ill and dying, but whatever choices we made and are making, the fact of the matter is that pandemics majorly suck. I think railing against lockdowns is a coping mechanism -- as policies we've chosen, we have some measure of control, so complaining about social restrictions gives us a sense we can change something, whereas going on a rant about bits of protein that don't quite qualify as even being alive doesn't really grant much relief. We're all tired. This is a crappy situation. And if complaining about lockdowns help people feel better, well we all do what we need to try and feel a bit better I guess. But, in our more calm and reflective and honest moments, we should remember that the psychological toll here is from the pandemic, and there's not some magical other option where the pandemic is anything other than a very difficult situation.

AndrewUnmuted 6y ago
> The psychological toll is from there being a deadly global pandemic. How do you know? I think this claim, if it is to be believed, deserves some solid and objective evidence. How come the pandemic is the deadly one? Why not put some of the blame on the millions of people who died from this thing, who probably could have lived through it had they lived healthier lives? There has been ZERO discussion of how to improve the body's natural immunity to viruses, which is without a doubt the most efficacious way to prevent death from coronaviruses. > I think railing against lockdowns is a coping mechanism This is so condescending I have a hard time believing you're being honest. No business owner would choose to completely shutter their enterprise as so many have had to do under threat of government violence. The complete upending of normal life was not something anyone did because it was the right thing to do. We did it because we were all under threat of fines, violence, and losing our freedoms even further if we didn't. > But, in our more calm and reflective and honest moments, we should remember that the psychological toll here is from the pandemic, and there's not some magical other option where the pandemic is anything other than a very difficult situation. The "pandemic" has done absolutely nothing to me. All of my difficulties have been tied to the complete shutdown of my local, state, and federal government. I haven't gotten sick nor have any of my close friends and family. I have, however, been assaulted by random prisoners let out of prison too early, have been price-gouged by corporations, and have had my basic liberties stripped. Those were all lockdown policies causing those things - not the pandemic. To me, it's overwhelmingly obvious that our infrastructure is failing and the government is using ridiculous histrionics regarding the virus and regarding "anti-racism," to cover it up.
orangecat 6y ago
The psychological toll is from there being a deadly global pandemic. I agree that there's going to be an ambient level of anxiety from knowing that there's a nasty disease out there, but are you really saying that not being able to see your friends and family, or losing your job, or having to scramble to work from home while managing your children's remote "learning" has no additional impact? there's not some magical other option where the pandemic is anything other than a very difficult situation Lockdowns aren't binary. We're allowed to consider the costs and benefits of individual measures. Banning large indoor events: probably worth it. Forbidding people from leaving their homes: probably not. And then you get into the more controversial areas like shutting down schools and trying to forbid small gatherings, where different governments have made different choices and it is not at all clear that stronger measures lead to better Covid outcomes.
- anyonecancode 6y ago
  > I agree that there's going to be an ambient level of anxiety from knowing that there's a nasty disease out there, but are you really saying that not being able to see your friends and family, or losing your job, or having to scramble to work from home while managing your children's remote "learning" has no additional impact? Of course it has an impact. If we didn't have social restrictions and consequently had much higher rates of infection, death, and long term disability, that also would have an impact. There's no world where, given a global pandemic, there are no severe impacts. Most arguments against social restriction that I've seen don't acknowledge this though. I mean, the other reply to my comment said "why not put some of the blame on the millions of people who died from this thing, who probably could have lived through it had they lived healthier lives", to which I can only reply "what?" For at least the most vocal opponents of social restrictions, they seem to have a radically different understanding of how respiratory infections work than I do. >Lockdowns aren't binary. We're allowed to consider the costs and benefits of individual measures Absolutely. It's not the people who are able to do nuance I'm taking issue with here. > it is not at all clear that stronger measures lead to better Covid outcomes. Well, I think the evidence is pretty clear that taking either none or very few measures has led to worse outcomes. Among places that have taken measures, I agree it gets hazier as you then have to go from the general "lockdown or freedom" argument into "which specific measures work best." The latter discussion is where we should be; the former one is, to my mind, based on an unrealistic set of assumptions.
sensanaty 6y ago
>The psychological toll is from there being a deadly global pandemic My friends and I could not possibly care less about the virus even if we tried, and half of us were even infected with Corona. The only thing affecting anyone in my friendgroup mentally are these lockdowns that are keeping us from living our lives, because I can guarantee you that every single one of us would rather be sitting in a crowded, closed space without even wearing masks than being forced to deal with god-knows how long of not being able to do anything, so I really wouldn't say the pandemic has any effect on us other than the fact that it brings with it lockdowns that none of us want.

AndrewUnmuted 6y ago

> The psychological toll is from there being a deadly global pandemic. How do you know? I think this claim, if it is to be believed, deserves some solid and objective evidence. How come the pandemic is the deadly one? Why not put some of the blame on the millions of people who died from this thing, who probably could have lived through it had they lived healthier lives? There has been ZERO discussion of how to improve the body's natural immunity to viruses, which is without a doubt the most efficacious way to prevent death from coronaviruses. > I think railing against lockdowns is a coping mechanism This is so condescending I have a hard time believing you're being honest. No business owner would choose to completely shutter their enterprise as so many have had to do under threat of government violence. The complete upending of normal life was not something anyone did because it was the right thing to do. We did it because we were all under threat of fines, violence, and losing our freedoms even further if we didn't. > But, in our more calm and reflective and honest moments, we should remember that the psychological toll here is from the pandemic, and there's not some magical other option where the pandemic is anything other than a very difficult situation. The "pandemic" has done absolutely nothing to me. All of my difficulties have been tied to the complete shutdown of my local, state, and federal government. I haven't gotten sick nor have any of my close friends and family. I have, however, been assaulted by random prisoners let out of prison too early, have been price-gouged by corporations, and have had my basic liberties stripped. Those were all lockdown policies causing those things - not the pandemic. To me, it's overwhelmingly obvious that our infrastructure is failing and the government is using ridiculous histrionics regarding the virus and regarding "anti-racism," to cover it up.

orangecat 6y ago

The psychological toll is from there being a deadly global pandemic. I agree that there's going to be an ambient level of anxiety from knowing that there's a nasty disease out there, but are you really saying that not being able to see your friends and family, or losing your job, or having to scramble to work from home while managing your children's remote "learning" has no additional impact? there's not some magical other option where the pandemic is anything other than a very difficult situation Lockdowns aren't binary. We're allowed to consider the costs and benefits of individual measures. Banning large indoor events: probably worth it. Forbidding people from leaving their homes: probably not. And then you get into the more controversial areas like shutting down schools and trying to forbid small gatherings, where different governments have made different choices and it is not at all clear that stronger measures lead to better Covid outcomes.

anyonecancode 6y ago
> I agree that there's going to be an ambient level of anxiety from knowing that there's a nasty disease out there, but are you really saying that not being able to see your friends and family, or losing your job, or having to scramble to work from home while managing your children's remote "learning" has no additional impact? Of course it has an impact. If we didn't have social restrictions and consequently had much higher rates of infection, death, and long term disability, that also would have an impact. There's no world where, given a global pandemic, there are no severe impacts. Most arguments against social restriction that I've seen don't acknowledge this though. I mean, the other reply to my comment said "why not put some of the blame on the millions of people who died from this thing, who probably could have lived through it had they lived healthier lives", to which I can only reply "what?" For at least the most vocal opponents of social restrictions, they seem to have a radically different understanding of how respiratory infections work than I do. >Lockdowns aren't binary. We're allowed to consider the costs and benefits of individual measures Absolutely. It's not the people who are able to do nuance I'm taking issue with here. > it is not at all clear that stronger measures lead to better Covid outcomes. Well, I think the evidence is pretty clear that taking either none or very few measures has led to worse outcomes. Among places that have taken measures, I agree it gets hazier as you then have to go from the general "lockdown or freedom" argument into "which specific measures work best." The latter discussion is where we should be; the former one is, to my mind, based on an unrealistic set of assumptions.

sensanaty 6y ago

>The psychological toll is from there being a deadly global pandemic My friends and I could not possibly care less about the virus even if we tried, and half of us were even infected with Corona. The only thing affecting anyone in my friendgroup mentally are these lockdowns that are keeping us from living our lives, because I can guarantee you that every single one of us would rather be sitting in a crowded, closed space without even wearing masks than being forced to deal with god-knows how long of not being able to do anything, so I really wouldn't say the pandemic has any effect on us other than the fact that it brings with it lockdowns that none of us want.