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In the stickiness of whatsapp, I caused something of a stir with my family. After the prev announcement and having a general distrust of facebook that had grown

In the stickiness of whatsapp, I caused something of a stir with my family. After the prev announcement and having a general distrust of facebook that had grown over the years, I deleted my Facebook account and made the announcement in the family whatsapp group that I was leaving whatsapp and they could join me on signal if they wished. I then deleted my whatsapp account. There was much wailing and grumpiness and some refusals to join me because people didn't want to use a new chat app. I was genuinely surprised that whatsapp had become so sticky for these people and had to mea culpa to smooth things over.

meibo 6y ago
I've experienced a lot of the same. I think the main cause for this is that WhatsApp still just works for most everyone, especially non-technical people - it's still a great product with many features, there's no settings you need to change, it's very reliable, moving to a new phone is literally just entering your phone number and allowing access(no accounts), etc. Some people followed me to Signal but there really hasn't been a lot of interaction, and a few of them even moved back after the huge downtime it had right when the big news about the new policy broke.
deanCommie 6y ago
Honestly, it "just works". It's fast, it's simple. Its UX is "flagship" (unlike, sorry, Signal - who I'm giving a chance, but the UX is unquestionably more "open source *nix product"-adjacent) A few years back I got tired that my friends were sprawled across many different platforms, and I tried a bunch of different clients and found Whatsapp the most attractive. I made a pitch to the ones who weren't already on there to move over. And it stuck, even for my own parents.
sneak 6y ago
This is the correct move. Every person who stays on WhatsApp makes using WhatsApp more useful and attractive. You have to delete your account there.
pkulak 6y ago
Somewhat the same for me, though I'm in a bit later stage than you are. I moved my family to Signal as well, but we all got a bit frustrated with the lack of features. No (good) Chromebook support, no message editing, the HARD requirement on owning a phone (which locked out my kids), no message history or even a way to backup messages, etc. A few weeks ago I spun up a tiny EC2 instance, threw a matrix server on it, and moved us all over to that. It's been wonderful. All the features we want, plus I own the whole thing and therefor can do administrator things like reset passwords. In a year or two will I regret being forced to admin a remote server that I've since forgotten everything about? History says yes, but who knows. It's been a joy so far.
- xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
  These at great points about Signal I hadn't considered. Maybe I'll run a matrix server too. How does the experience compare to e.g. whatsapp?
  - pkulak 6y ago
    I haven't used WhatsApp much, I've just co-opted this whole thing to move people off SMS. But, comparing Element now to WhatsApp when I used it years ago, Element is more polished with more features. It's dead easy to download the app and sign up on Matrix.org though, just to test it all out before you go through the trouble of setting up your own homeserver.
- bkirkby 6y ago
  i love this idea! i think i'll do that as well just to test it out.
- retromario 6y ago
  How does the Matrix experience compare to Signal, feature-wise? I ran into similar frustrations with Signal's lack of polish in certain areas when trying to move family over. There's something to be said for why WhatsApp is so popular, it feels like the most full-featured and polished communications app.
dylan604 6y ago
>I was genuinely surprised that whatsapp had become so sticky Why was this surprising? In general, people are lazy, at least creatures of habit if lazy is too strong. They have an app, it works for them, things in the background where they don't even know exists change that affects them zero, and you fly off the handle and disappear. You're the only person that had issues, and you're trying to buck their system. Just because you (royal you, not you you) have strong moralistic feelings towards a company doesn't mean everyone else in your circles feel the same way. There is no bigger zealot than a new convert, and people get tired of hearing about it. To non-techie types, people screaming out against FB sound just like cult members.
- bkirkby 6y ago
  you're probably right. i think everyone would have been fine with "crazy uncle brian going off on a tangent," and leaving me be, except i didn't tangent. when i left facebook i just left and when i left whatsapp i told people about signal two weeks ahead and then just left with that one message. i think the problem was that i had convinced the patriarch of the group to join me and people wanted to be in contact with him, so the dissatisfaction was directed toward me. ironically, i was the one who talked down the group from the fearfully dire outlook about social media when we discussed the netflix "documentary" "the social dilemma" a few months back. i thought the latter part of the documentary that had the predictions of our society being destroyed because of the revelations exposed about what social media is doing to us was cringe and i explained to the group why. OTOH, i told people "yeah, the first part is totally true and not a revelation. they are absolutely hacking your social biology to get you more engaged in what they have to offer. it's not a surprise to anyone really as the ML systems and technology that optimize for that are well understood and pretty standard. heck, i've even written some of those algorithms myself." that's actually part of why i left facebook. i realized that i had become complacent about things i should not have become complacent about. fwiw, my productivity and happiness have increased dramatically since i left facebook/whatsapp. YMMV
Cd00d 6y ago
That's interesting. I had the opposite experience. I told all my text-chain friends and family that I was leaving WhatsApp and invited them to Signal. All of them had moved over within 2 days. Though, most of those people I motivated to move to WhatsApp years ago when I wanted to switch from iPhone to Android. So, it's already a specific group.
tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
OTOH, one intolerant/militant person can force an entire group to accept their opinion, if the people would rather accept their opinion than abandon contact/friendships with that person. If you force people to choose between using Signal and no longer being able to talk to you, they will make a choice. That choice could end with you being abandoned or ignored, or with a large group that would rather prefer WhatsApp using Signal, at least for this group. Especially if it's multiple militant people, this effect can be quite powerful.

meibo 6y ago

I've experienced a lot of the same. I think the main cause for this is that WhatsApp still just works for most everyone, especially non-technical people - it's still a great product with many features, there's no settings you need to change, it's very reliable, moving to a new phone is literally just entering your phone number and allowing access(no accounts), etc. Some people followed me to Signal but there really hasn't been a lot of interaction, and a few of them even moved back after the huge downtime it had right when the big news about the new policy broke.

deanCommie 6y ago

Honestly, it "just works". It's fast, it's simple. Its UX is "flagship" (unlike, sorry, Signal - who I'm giving a chance, but the UX is unquestionably more "open source *nix product"-adjacent) A few years back I got tired that my friends were sprawled across many different platforms, and I tried a bunch of different clients and found Whatsapp the most attractive. I made a pitch to the ones who weren't already on there to move over. And it stuck, even for my own parents.

sneak 6y ago

This is the correct move. Every person who stays on WhatsApp makes using WhatsApp more useful and attractive. You have to delete your account there.

pkulak 6y ago

Somewhat the same for me, though I'm in a bit later stage than you are. I moved my family to Signal as well, but we all got a bit frustrated with the lack of features. No (good) Chromebook support, no message editing, the HARD requirement on owning a phone (which locked out my kids), no message history or even a way to backup messages, etc. A few weeks ago I spun up a tiny EC2 instance, threw a matrix server on it, and moved us all over to that. It's been wonderful. All the features we want, plus I own the whole thing and therefor can do administrator things like reset passwords. In a year or two will I regret being forced to admin a remote server that I've since forgotten everything about? History says yes, but who knows. It's been a joy so far.

xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
These at great points about Signal I hadn't considered. Maybe I'll run a matrix server too. How does the experience compare to e.g. whatsapp?
- pkulak 6y ago
  I haven't used WhatsApp much, I've just co-opted this whole thing to move people off SMS. But, comparing Element now to WhatsApp when I used it years ago, Element is more polished with more features. It's dead easy to download the app and sign up on Matrix.org though, just to test it all out before you go through the trouble of setting up your own homeserver.
bkirkby 6y ago
i love this idea! i think i'll do that as well just to test it out.
retromario 6y ago
How does the Matrix experience compare to Signal, feature-wise? I ran into similar frustrations with Signal's lack of polish in certain areas when trying to move family over. There's something to be said for why WhatsApp is so popular, it feels like the most full-featured and polished communications app.

dylan604 6y ago

>I was genuinely surprised that whatsapp had become so sticky Why was this surprising? In general, people are lazy, at least creatures of habit if lazy is too strong. They have an app, it works for them, things in the background where they don't even know exists change that affects them zero, and you fly off the handle and disappear. You're the only person that had issues, and you're trying to buck their system. Just because you (royal you, not you you) have strong moralistic feelings towards a company doesn't mean everyone else in your circles feel the same way. There is no bigger zealot than a new convert, and people get tired of hearing about it. To non-techie types, people screaming out against FB sound just like cult members.

bkirkby 6y ago
you're probably right. i think everyone would have been fine with "crazy uncle brian going off on a tangent," and leaving me be, except i didn't tangent. when i left facebook i just left and when i left whatsapp i told people about signal two weeks ahead and then just left with that one message. i think the problem was that i had convinced the patriarch of the group to join me and people wanted to be in contact with him, so the dissatisfaction was directed toward me. ironically, i was the one who talked down the group from the fearfully dire outlook about social media when we discussed the netflix "documentary" "the social dilemma" a few months back. i thought the latter part of the documentary that had the predictions of our society being destroyed because of the revelations exposed about what social media is doing to us was cringe and i explained to the group why. OTOH, i told people "yeah, the first part is totally true and not a revelation. they are absolutely hacking your social biology to get you more engaged in what they have to offer. it's not a surprise to anyone really as the ML systems and technology that optimize for that are well understood and pretty standard. heck, i've even written some of those algorithms myself." that's actually part of why i left facebook. i realized that i had become complacent about things i should not have become complacent about. fwiw, my productivity and happiness have increased dramatically since i left facebook/whatsapp. YMMV

Cd00d 6y ago

That's interesting. I had the opposite experience. I told all my text-chain friends and family that I was leaving WhatsApp and invited them to Signal. All of them had moved over within 2 days. Though, most of those people I motivated to move to WhatsApp years ago when I wanted to switch from iPhone to Android. So, it's already a specific group.

tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago

OTOH, one intolerant/militant person can force an entire group to accept their opinion, if the people would rather accept their opinion than abandon contact/friendships with that person. If you force people to choose between using Signal and no longer being able to talk to you, they will make a choice. That choice could end with you being abandoned or ignored, or with a large group that would rather prefer WhatsApp using Signal, at least for this group. Especially if it's multiple militant people, this effect can be quite powerful.