3 ms·

re sleep: is it common for sleep schedules to "drift"? I'll sleep at 11pm on one night naturally and wake up refreshed at 7am in the morning the next day, but I

by adtac 6y ago

re sleep: is it common for sleep schedules to "drift"? I'll sleep at 11pm on one night naturally and wake up refreshed at 7am in the morning the next day, but I won't naturally go to sleep until 12am that night. This leads to a 8am wake up time the next day. You can see how this will quickly lead to an bad sleeping pattern. is it possible to fix this with a few weeks of consistently sleeping at the same time somehow? will I eventually sleep at the same time naturally? or will this take months of "forcing" myself to sleep (as ridiculous as that sounds)?

sixhobbits 6y ago
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder
- adtac 6y ago
  Okay, that Wikipedia page reads like a personal biography lol. I probably have this in some mild form. The drift is usually about 20-30 mins for me (I used an hour as an example in my original comment), so it's mostly manageable by shortening my duration of sleep by an hour once or twice a week, but I should get this fixed.
zeta0134 6y ago
If you solve this problem, would you share the details? I've been dealing with this for my entire adult life. When I can convince my body to actually sleep when the sun goes down, the day that follows is typically one of my most productive, but I also only seem to get one of those per week or so. I can work around this by moderating the length of my sleep, ie, allowing myself to go for at least 7.5 hours no matter when I fall, but sometimes IRL obligations get in the way. For most folks working more strict office hours (or god, retail) this is not a workable suggestion. Even then, eventually I'll drift too far, one of the sleep cycles gets shorted, then there's this weird recovery period with some short naps, and surprise now we're waking up at dawn again.
- thisiszilff 6y ago
  I'll bite and say I think it can be pretty personal. I struggled with insomnia-like symptoms for a while (eg, I simply was not tired and could not fall asleep) until I began to experiment with a couple of things. For me the most important where - waking up at a consistent hour, every day, even the weekends - no caffeine after noon, ideally not after 11, but I like coffee (individual tolerance will vary, I'm apparently on the sensitive side) - make sure you're comfortable at night. It's baffling that I didn't realize this sooner, but the trick to falling asleep for me is to just get comfortable enough that I don't really want to move. When you hit that point where you're so comfortable and don't feel the need to move, then drifting off is easy. - have a planning method to make sure you are organized and offload any thoughts about what needs to happen. I read Getting Things Done and implemented some of the stuff there and that helped a lot in freeing up my mind from worrying - remind yourself, routinely, that whatever you are doing, you'll be able to do it better in the morning > I can work around this by moderating the length of my sleep, ie, allowing myself to go for at least 7.5 hours no matter when I fall, but sometimes IRL obligations get in the way. For most folks working more strict office hours (or god, retail) this is not a workable suggestion. Even then, eventually I'll drift too far, one of the sleep cycles gets shorted, then there's this weird recovery period with some short naps, and surprise now we're waking up at dawn again. That is pretty much where I was. I'd go to sleep at varying hours from 10PM to 5AM, always somehow later each night. Sometimes it would take me very long to fall asleep (ie 2 hrs +) unless I felt very tired. Looking back, it is like I needed to be truly exhausted -- not just sleepy, but exhausted -- to fall asleep and that pushed back my sleep schedule every night a little bit. It wasn't until I got brutal headaches and brain fog everyday that I made it my top priority and began to take an inventory of everything that got in my way. I still go to bed late (between midnight and 1) though, in part because it lets me do regular social things and still, usually, go to bed on time.
grenoire 6y ago
I solved this by exercising, it normalised my sleeping patterns drastically compared to what I had in my student days. Now I am 'ready' at 12, and consistently wake up at 8-8:30 in the mornings.
hypertele-Xii 6y ago
It is called Non-24-hour sleep–wake disorder [1], and is very common in blind people. I have it (though not blind). The Wikipedia article suggests some treatments. It's impossible to fix in my experience by forcing myself into a consistent cycle; I'll just grow more and more tired over time until I simply fail to wake to alarm. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-24-hour_sleep%E2%80%93wake_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-24-hour_sleep%E2%80%93wake...
- Sinidir 6y ago
  How do you manage a job with this?
  - hypertele-Xii 6y ago
    You don't. I've never been employed full time and school was hell. Best I can do is hack from home. Maybe it'll sustain me one day.
SyzygistSix 6y ago
It seems common enough and from what I have read, it is just something a certain number of people have innately. And it doesn't fit well with an 8-5 workday unfortunately. The only way I have found to moderate it at all is using a moderate stimulant in the morning (pseudoephidrine) and a moderate sleep aid (allergy pill, diphenhydramine) at night, plus being very disciplined (no caffeine after noon, go to bed at a certain time with no video screens/close my book).
avidiax 6y ago
a) if you feel sleepy anytime after, say 8pm, don't fight it, just go to sleep. Yawning is sleepy. b) if you ignored a) and now you're not sleepy, take a melatonin, and then don't fight a) again c) Get some exercise. Try to get some sunlight when you wake up. Use a SAD light if you can't get natural light. d) Don't stress about your sleep unless it's actually causing a problem.

by adtac 6y ago

sixhobbits 6y ago

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder

adtac 6y ago
Okay, that Wikipedia page reads like a personal biography lol. I probably have this in some mild form. The drift is usually about 20-30 mins for me (I used an hour as an example in my original comment), so it's mostly manageable by shortening my duration of sleep by an hour once or twice a week, but I should get this fixed.

zeta0134 6y ago

If you solve this problem, would you share the details? I've been dealing with this for my entire adult life. When I can convince my body to actually sleep when the sun goes down, the day that follows is typically one of my most productive, but I also only seem to get one of those per week or so. I can work around this by moderating the length of my sleep, ie, allowing myself to go for at least 7.5 hours no matter when I fall, but sometimes IRL obligations get in the way. For most folks working more strict office hours (or god, retail) this is not a workable suggestion. Even then, eventually I'll drift too far, one of the sleep cycles gets shorted, then there's this weird recovery period with some short naps, and surprise now we're waking up at dawn again.

thisiszilff 6y ago
I'll bite and say I think it can be pretty personal. I struggled with insomnia-like symptoms for a while (eg, I simply was not tired and could not fall asleep) until I began to experiment with a couple of things. For me the most important where - waking up at a consistent hour, every day, even the weekends - no caffeine after noon, ideally not after 11, but I like coffee (individual tolerance will vary, I'm apparently on the sensitive side) - make sure you're comfortable at night. It's baffling that I didn't realize this sooner, but the trick to falling asleep for me is to just get comfortable enough that I don't really want to move. When you hit that point where you're so comfortable and don't feel the need to move, then drifting off is easy. - have a planning method to make sure you are organized and offload any thoughts about what needs to happen. I read Getting Things Done and implemented some of the stuff there and that helped a lot in freeing up my mind from worrying - remind yourself, routinely, that whatever you are doing, you'll be able to do it better in the morning > I can work around this by moderating the length of my sleep, ie, allowing myself to go for at least 7.5 hours no matter when I fall, but sometimes IRL obligations get in the way. For most folks working more strict office hours (or god, retail) this is not a workable suggestion. Even then, eventually I'll drift too far, one of the sleep cycles gets shorted, then there's this weird recovery period with some short naps, and surprise now we're waking up at dawn again. That is pretty much where I was. I'd go to sleep at varying hours from 10PM to 5AM, always somehow later each night. Sometimes it would take me very long to fall asleep (ie 2 hrs +) unless I felt very tired. Looking back, it is like I needed to be truly exhausted -- not just sleepy, but exhausted -- to fall asleep and that pushed back my sleep schedule every night a little bit. It wasn't until I got brutal headaches and brain fog everyday that I made it my top priority and began to take an inventory of everything that got in my way. I still go to bed late (between midnight and 1) though, in part because it lets me do regular social things and still, usually, go to bed on time.

grenoire 6y ago

I solved this by exercising, it normalised my sleeping patterns drastically compared to what I had in my student days. Now I am 'ready' at 12, and consistently wake up at 8-8:30 in the mornings.

hypertele-Xii 6y ago

It is called Non-24-hour sleep–wake disorder [1], and is very common in blind people. I have it (though not blind). The Wikipedia article suggests some treatments. It's impossible to fix in my experience by forcing myself into a consistent cycle; I'll just grow more and more tired over time until I simply fail to wake to alarm. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-24-hour_sleep%E2%80%93wake_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-24-hour_sleep%E2%80%93wake...

Sinidir 6y ago
How do you manage a job with this?
- hypertele-Xii 6y ago
  You don't. I've never been employed full time and school was hell. Best I can do is hack from home. Maybe it'll sustain me one day.

SyzygistSix 6y ago

It seems common enough and from what I have read, it is just something a certain number of people have innately. And it doesn't fit well with an 8-5 workday unfortunately. The only way I have found to moderate it at all is using a moderate stimulant in the morning (pseudoephidrine) and a moderate sleep aid (allergy pill, diphenhydramine) at night, plus being very disciplined (no caffeine after noon, go to bed at a certain time with no video screens/close my book).

avidiax 6y ago

a) if you feel sleepy anytime after, say 8pm, don't fight it, just go to sleep. Yawning is sleepy. b) if you ignored a) and now you're not sleepy, take a melatonin, and then don't fight a) again c) Get some exercise. Try to get some sunlight when you wake up. Use a SAD light if you can't get natural light. d) Don't stress about your sleep unless it's actually causing a problem.