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This comes across to me as very self-centered. Perfect service over having the drivers earning a livable wage?

sokoloff 6y ago
Drivers aren’t likely to sustainably earn a livable wage by delivering cold food two hours after it was expected either.
- cloudfifty 6y ago
  Why are you going after the one-data-point anecdote instead of the broader picture?
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    The broader picture is that all of the money to pay the driver comes from the customer. If the driver-restaurant system isn’t creating enough value for the customer to pay them a living wage, they won’t get it. Either they’ll get a lesser wage, go out of business, or both. That anecdote was immediately relatable to many of us who have gotten late, soggy, cold food delivery.
    - cloudfifty 6y ago
      No. Your premise seem to be that this anecdote is correct and that that is the inevitable result of non gig-job delivery. I'm pretty sure that there's a lot of anecdotes out there with bad Uber Eats deliveries too.
      - sokoloff 6y ago
        I did (and do) not argue it’s inevitable, but it is quite common in my experience. My solution to their failure is to go pick it up myself, including purchasing some of those red insulated delivery boxes for our family use. It makes takeout much more enjoyable when the timing is predictable and the food almost as high-quality as if served on-site. As a customer, my concern is with a goods and services I’m buying. The restaurant’s relationship with its employees, food suppliers, and power company is their concern, not mine. If a restaurant wants to pay $100/hr or any other legal wage, that’s their business, not mine.
        cloudfifty 6y ago
        > is their concern, not mine. Well. This is self-centered to me. I don't want to buy anything from anyone who doesn't treat people with dignity.
        sokoloff 6y ago
        It’s inarguably self-centered but entirely practical. I can’t review the employee handbook, employee promoter score, supply chain sustainability reports, and corporate social responsibility policies of everyone I order so much as an $8 pizza from.
        cloudfifty 6y ago
        There's nothing opaque about the labour relations of the gig-economy.
yomly 6y ago
Why? Because I wanted the meal I paid for to be on time and hot? For the record, I tip extremely generously on the delivery apps as I recognise the importance the riders are doing during the pandemic. I will never ever willingly tolerate that two hour delivery again. At any price or discount. It was a week night and we were starving by the time the food arrived and it screwed up our routine for the day. I would pay a reasonable premium to have that meal delivered to me on time and hot. So really, deliveroo/uber eats created entirely new business. A friend who runs a restaurant said he thought they were the devil and was never going to join them until the pandemic but he said he is now a believer. Adapt or die. As for drivers earning a liveable wage, I am for that and maybe regulation is required, who knows but you bet your ass the more efficient business with huge economies of scale will have more power to pay their drivers properly than indie mum n dad restaurants.
- cloudfifty 6y ago
  > bet your ass the more efficient business with huge economies of scale will have more power to pay their drivers properly than indie mum n dad restaurants. The only thing we've seen these "economies of scale" doing the last decade is the exact opposite, namely using all their muscles to pay workers as little as possible.

Drivers aren’t likely to sustainably earn a livable wage by delivering cold food two hours after it was expected either.

cloudfifty 6y ago
Why are you going after the one-data-point anecdote instead of the broader picture?
- sokoloff 6y ago
  The broader picture is that all of the money to pay the driver comes from the customer. If the driver-restaurant system isn’t creating enough value for the customer to pay them a living wage, they won’t get it. Either they’ll get a lesser wage, go out of business, or both. That anecdote was immediately relatable to many of us who have gotten late, soggy, cold food delivery.
  - cloudfifty 6y ago
    No. Your premise seem to be that this anecdote is correct and that that is the inevitable result of non gig-job delivery. I'm pretty sure that there's a lot of anecdotes out there with bad Uber Eats deliveries too.
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      I did (and do) not argue it’s inevitable, but it is quite common in my experience. My solution to their failure is to go pick it up myself, including purchasing some of those red insulated delivery boxes for our family use. It makes takeout much more enjoyable when the timing is predictable and the food almost as high-quality as if served on-site. As a customer, my concern is with a goods and services I’m buying. The restaurant’s relationship with its employees, food suppliers, and power company is their concern, not mine. If a restaurant wants to pay $100/hr or any other legal wage, that’s their business, not mine.
      - cloudfifty 6y ago
        > is their concern, not mine. Well. This is self-centered to me. I don't want to buy anything from anyone who doesn't treat people with dignity.
        sokoloff 6y ago
        It’s inarguably self-centered but entirely practical. I can’t review the employee handbook, employee promoter score, supply chain sustainability reports, and corporate social responsibility policies of everyone I order so much as an $8 pizza from.
        cloudfifty 6y ago
        There's nothing opaque about the labour relations of the gig-economy.

yomly 6y ago

Why? Because I wanted the meal I paid for to be on time and hot? For the record, I tip extremely generously on the delivery apps as I recognise the importance the riders are doing during the pandemic. I will never ever willingly tolerate that two hour delivery again. At any price or discount. It was a week night and we were starving by the time the food arrived and it screwed up our routine for the day. I would pay a reasonable premium to have that meal delivered to me on time and hot. So really, deliveroo/uber eats created entirely new business. A friend who runs a restaurant said he thought they were the devil and was never going to join them until the pandemic but he said he is now a believer. Adapt or die. As for drivers earning a liveable wage, I am for that and maybe regulation is required, who knows but you bet your ass the more efficient business with huge economies of scale will have more power to pay their drivers properly than indie mum n dad restaurants.

cloudfifty 6y ago
> bet your ass the more efficient business with huge economies of scale will have more power to pay their drivers properly than indie mum n dad restaurants. The only thing we've seen these "economies of scale" doing the last decade is the exact opposite, namely using all their muscles to pay workers as little as possible.