6 ms·

Except they would actually have none of the benefits and security of being an employee by choice, so that argument is total tosh if you ask me No holidays, no

Except they would actually have none of the benefits and security of being an employee by choice, so that argument is total tosh if you ask me No holidays, no sick pay, no minimum notice term, no overtime, no bonus, no 20% time, no paid lunches or benefits.

simias 6y ago
Disguised employees are generally advantageous for the company, not the worker.
- helsinkiandrew 6y ago
  For low paid drivers yes, but I know a lot of high paid software developers who would say otherwise.
  - simias 6y ago
    For sure, but it's always higher risk/higher reward. If you're young and healthy you can probably earn more working that way, but if you're older, have a mortgage, have health issues, need maternity leave, have children in a nearby school and you don't want to move etc... The security and benefits of a salaried position can be worth more in the long run.
- zajio1am 6y ago
  Depends on country. Here in Czechia due to tax advantages for self-employed the net worker income may be more than 50% bigger for self-employed than for regular emplyees with the same level of company expenses.
helsinkiandrew 6y ago
But they would be being 'paid' perhaps double the employee rate. Paying yourself and spouse with dividends (20% tax) rather than a salary, taking lots of business expenses, and withholding income until needed. A few years ago this was common in many London investment banking dev jobs - it appealed to both the companies and certain developers. Often those who had other business interests. I had a colleague whose contracting company was paying his wife in gold via an offshore company to further reduce tax paid (I only remember that from a drunken discussion so can't swear to its truthfulness)
- Nursie 6y ago
  Dangerous now, HMRC have the power to retroactively declare schemes like that illegal and go after back-taxes and penalties. The space used to be rife with those sorts of schemes, I used to get phone calls - "We found your CV on a recruitment site, we understand you're a contractor. How would you like to keep 95% of your gross earnings?" They seem to have died down a lot now.
- youngtaff 6y ago
  > But they would be being 'paid' perhaps double the employee rate. Paying yourself and spouse with dividends (20% tax) rather than a salary, taking lots of business expenses, and withholding income until needed. Dividends only save NI rather than tax as only first 2K is tax free, then its' 7.5% to the end of the lower rate band, and then something else in the higher one (andahdn as they come from profits corporation tax has already been paid on them) Real savings come from avoiding NI, and having partners as co-employees / directors / shareholders so the 'income' can be split between two people rather than one Offshore companies and gold bars is ripe for HMRC taking a closer look

simias 6y ago

Disguised employees are generally advantageous for the company, not the worker.

helsinkiandrew 6y ago
For low paid drivers yes, but I know a lot of high paid software developers who would say otherwise.
- simias 6y ago
  For sure, but it's always higher risk/higher reward. If you're young and healthy you can probably earn more working that way, but if you're older, have a mortgage, have health issues, need maternity leave, have children in a nearby school and you don't want to move etc... The security and benefits of a salaried position can be worth more in the long run.
zajio1am 6y ago
Depends on country. Here in Czechia due to tax advantages for self-employed the net worker income may be more than 50% bigger for self-employed than for regular emplyees with the same level of company expenses.

helsinkiandrew 6y ago

But they would be being 'paid' perhaps double the employee rate. Paying yourself and spouse with dividends (20% tax) rather than a salary, taking lots of business expenses, and withholding income until needed. A few years ago this was common in many London investment banking dev jobs - it appealed to both the companies and certain developers. Often those who had other business interests. I had a colleague whose contracting company was paying his wife in gold via an offshore company to further reduce tax paid (I only remember that from a drunken discussion so can't swear to its truthfulness)

Nursie 6y ago
Dangerous now, HMRC have the power to retroactively declare schemes like that illegal and go after back-taxes and penalties. The space used to be rife with those sorts of schemes, I used to get phone calls - "We found your CV on a recruitment site, we understand you're a contractor. How would you like to keep 95% of your gross earnings?" They seem to have died down a lot now.
youngtaff 6y ago
> But they would be being 'paid' perhaps double the employee rate. Paying yourself and spouse with dividends (20% tax) rather than a salary, taking lots of business expenses, and withholding income until needed. Dividends only save NI rather than tax as only first 2K is tax free, then its' 7.5% to the end of the lower rate band, and then something else in the higher one (andahdn as they come from profits corporation tax has already been paid on them) Real savings come from avoiding NI, and having partners as co-employees / directors / shareholders so the 'income' can be split between two people rather than one Offshore companies and gold bars is ripe for HMRC taking a closer look