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Software Engineers getting richer is the least of your worries. I'd like to talk about billionaires. The impossibly wealthy. We need to have a society that pay

Software Engineers getting richer is the least of your worries. I'd like to talk about billionaires. The impossibly wealthy. We need to have a society that pays well for high demand jobs. Please don't shit on Engineers. There are millions of people out there that are sitting on real estate old money, rich families, etc. They're not doing shit. They're not building the world around you. One mega billionare would dwarf a crowd of Engineers. I want to live in a society where science and technology jobs are paid well and even fine with absurdly well. Same with doctors. I also want to live in a society where shitty jobs such as cleaning gutters and driving a trash truck around should also be paid well because no one wants to do those. If you're stuck flipping burgers, you have the onus to do something that's worth while and in high demand. We need to make sure we give access to those people who want to learn and get educated. Google's employee base making $450k/year is a miniscule part of software engineers. My guess would be US-wide, the average software engineer earns less than six figures or very close to it. Not "Rich" by any means. I am tired of the marxist bs. I barely make six figures and that's after years of toiling through shitty code bases and mentally exhausted everyday and raising a family. I do boring software and anything that's thrown at me. Not what you have in mind as "Rich". Rich is relative. Leave engineers alone, bang on billionaire's door. I've added more value to the society and I demand an equivalent pay. The real disconnect is with the mega billionaires playing golf at the Hamptons. Anyone with a salary is by definition unleveraged and not "Rich" in my view.

refurb 6y ago
Leave engineers alone, bang on billionaire's door. Nope. Sorry (she/he/they) dude. You don’t get to point up the ladder and say “i’m not rich, but that guy is”. Reminds me people who define someone with an alcohol problem as a person “who has one more drink a day then I do”. If you’re an engineer at Google and making $450k you are wealthy, you are a part of the “rich getting richer” and yes, if you want to solve inequality you’re going to have to contribute in a big way. Edit: And no, your original post said “go after the billionaires”, not the engineers. Sorry, just because billionaires have more money than you doesn’t mean you’re not rich. Sure, the engineers making $50k get a pass. But over $100k? That’s double the median salary in the US. Time to pony up.
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  Perhaps you missed my point - I was specifically making the argument of non-Googlers. Google Engineers and SV salaries do not represent software engineering ecosystem and the average salary. Also, please don't assume my gender. Edit: Pony up for what? It's not a zero sum game. Edit: Lol, I am a "He dude". :)
- soulofmischief 6y ago
  Nothing is wrong with being wealthy after developing a coveted and high-demand skillset. The point is that it's the ultra-wealthy you need to be concerned with.
  - XorNot 6y ago
    This misses the point as to why though: because it's not an incremental ladder, it's an exponential one - the wealth consolidated by the billionaire class is buying politics. It has an outsized influence on the thinking and mindset of the political classes they donate too and talk to on weekends. This isn't just an issue like bribery it's more insidious then that: when your political leaders spend most of their "leisure" time in the company of these people, they adopt their values, listen to their thoughts and give everything a favorable view - more of hearing then you and I will ever get. After all it's hard to be down on a guy who's put you up for the afternoon at his mansion, and even though you know it's a bad look to take him up on it it sure is nice he keeps offering the master guest suite if you want to stay the night.
    - refurb 6y ago
      This is just hand waving. Sure the billionaire has exponentially more, but there are very few of them. We won’t solve inequality by taxing the billionaires it’ll be from taxing the upper-middle class. Just like the states with more equality in Europe do. If you’re in the top 25% of income you’ll need to make some sacrifices if you want to solve the problem.
      - hannasanarion 6y ago
jorblumesea 6y ago
Marxist? You mean, having empathy for other people? Reading the comments on HN on this topic, it's largely people disconnected from the problems of a large subset of society and offering terrible and often insulting advice. Does making less money than a billionaire somehow absolve you of this disconnect? You can make 50k a year and still be a complete dick to people. I get what you're saying in some sense. The gorilla in the room is the fact that the true rich are taxed totally differently (and mostly unfairly). But also pointing to richer people and saying "they are the problem" is part of the problem. We're all voters and we all vote. If we want to, we could absolutely change the system and make it fairer. As much as it is the billionaire's "fault", it is also our responsibility to make the right choices, politically and socially. But as long as we keep fighting each other and calling people absurd names like "Marxist", nothing will change.
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  I do have empathy for the poor. I used to work at a Shell gas station and I've talked to all kinds of people from Land Rover high rollers to drug addicts buying glass roses. When you talk to the people flipping burgers in America, youll see a whole spectrum. And when you see these people earning a minimum wage and waste their life smoking weed, modifying their cars with shit they can't afford and playing video games all day, I have zero empathy for them. There are people that want to improve and I've had several conversations how they can't afford education or vocational school or any sort of apprentice practice. I have a lot of empathy for them.
  - jorblumesea 6y ago
    If you don't understand why people would rather waste their life vs work up the ladder, you have a very poor understanding of what it means to be poor in America. Surprise surprise, the person who claims they "understand" or "empathize" for the poor actually has no empathy or understanding at all! Really just confirming my original point. HN users have no idea what is going on.

refurb 6y ago

Leave engineers alone, bang on billionaire's door. Nope. Sorry (she/he/they) dude. You don’t get to point up the ladder and say “i’m not rich, but that guy is”. Reminds me people who define someone with an alcohol problem as a person “who has one more drink a day then I do”. If you’re an engineer at Google and making $450k you are wealthy, you are a part of the “rich getting richer” and yes, if you want to solve inequality you’re going to have to contribute in a big way. Edit: And no, your original post said “go after the billionaires”, not the engineers. Sorry, just because billionaires have more money than you doesn’t mean you’re not rich. Sure, the engineers making $50k get a pass. But over $100k? That’s double the median salary in the US. Time to pony up.

systemvoltage 6y ago
Perhaps you missed my point - I was specifically making the argument of non-Googlers. Google Engineers and SV salaries do not represent software engineering ecosystem and the average salary. Also, please don't assume my gender. Edit: Pony up for what? It's not a zero sum game. Edit: Lol, I am a "He dude". :)
soulofmischief 6y ago
Nothing is wrong with being wealthy after developing a coveted and high-demand skillset. The point is that it's the ultra-wealthy you need to be concerned with.
- XorNot 6y ago
  This misses the point as to why though: because it's not an incremental ladder, it's an exponential one - the wealth consolidated by the billionaire class is buying politics. It has an outsized influence on the thinking and mindset of the political classes they donate too and talk to on weekends. This isn't just an issue like bribery it's more insidious then that: when your political leaders spend most of their "leisure" time in the company of these people, they adopt their values, listen to their thoughts and give everything a favorable view - more of hearing then you and I will ever get. After all it's hard to be down on a guy who's put you up for the afternoon at his mansion, and even though you know it's a bad look to take him up on it it sure is nice he keeps offering the master guest suite if you want to stay the night.
  - refurb 6y ago
    This is just hand waving. Sure the billionaire has exponentially more, but there are very few of them. We won’t solve inequality by taxing the billionaires it’ll be from taxing the upper-middle class. Just like the states with more equality in Europe do. If you’re in the top 25% of income you’ll need to make some sacrifices if you want to solve the problem.
    - hannasanarion 6y ago

jorblumesea 6y ago

Marxist? You mean, having empathy for other people? Reading the comments on HN on this topic, it's largely people disconnected from the problems of a large subset of society and offering terrible and often insulting advice. Does making less money than a billionaire somehow absolve you of this disconnect? You can make 50k a year and still be a complete dick to people. I get what you're saying in some sense. The gorilla in the room is the fact that the true rich are taxed totally differently (and mostly unfairly). But also pointing to richer people and saying "they are the problem" is part of the problem. We're all voters and we all vote. If we want to, we could absolutely change the system and make it fairer. As much as it is the billionaire's "fault", it is also our responsibility to make the right choices, politically and socially. But as long as we keep fighting each other and calling people absurd names like "Marxist", nothing will change.

systemvoltage 6y ago
I do have empathy for the poor. I used to work at a Shell gas station and I've talked to all kinds of people from Land Rover high rollers to drug addicts buying glass roses. When you talk to the people flipping burgers in America, youll see a whole spectrum. And when you see these people earning a minimum wage and waste their life smoking weed, modifying their cars with shit they can't afford and playing video games all day, I have zero empathy for them. There are people that want to improve and I've had several conversations how they can't afford education or vocational school or any sort of apprentice practice. I have a lot of empathy for them.
- jorblumesea 6y ago
  If you don't understand why people would rather waste their life vs work up the ladder, you have a very poor understanding of what it means to be poor in America. Surprise surprise, the person who claims they "understand" or "empathize" for the poor actually has no empathy or understanding at all! Really just confirming my original point. HN users have no idea what is going on.