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I think people that have been poor / hold minimum wage jobs are more likely to not care about poor people. I fall into this camp. On the other hand I think hack

I think people that have been poor / hold minimum wage jobs are more likely to not care about poor people. I fall into this camp. On the other hand I think hacker news is predominantly liberal and seems to care very much for poor people.

refurb 6y ago
Hard to be empathetic if you don’t even know what it’s like to be in their shoes. And plenty of conservatives care about the poor. Ever been down south in a poor area? People look out for their neighbors way more than they do in big cities.
- XorNot 6y ago
  Caring about people you can see, hear and talk to is the bare minimum of human empathy. The South doesn't get points for that while lobbying to destroy people based on stereotypes it imagines. The strongest opinions on any group are always from those with the least contact with them.
  - refurb 6y ago
    With minimal contact you get a forced, paternalistic empathy. Picture “the white mans burden” in Africa.
  - tjs8rj 6y ago
    I think this is such a reductive take of The South. A great tool for understanding a culture is sometimes to place it historically so you can be more objective. For one, The South has more black people and poor than anywhere else in the country, meanwhile liberal states like Oregon, Vermont, and so on are some of the whitest, so the theory that it’s about lack of contact is obviously lacking. The South places strong emphasis on self-reliance and community, to a degree other areas might consider to a fault. That manifests in wanting smaller government, less outside intervention, close-knit communities and neighbor friendliness, and so on. Someone “whining about how hard life is and begging for handouts” (said by someone from The South) is in their eyes selfishly draining their community because of their lack of self reliance. To an extent: this is true. The South is relatively poor so they know better than most - there are many people who would rather get handouts than make better decisions. This is also wrong in many cases: many people are poor systematically, and are in a rut where self reliance isn’t enough. There’s tons of complexity to these things that both sides paint black and white. The South isn’t your culture but mean, like some seem to think. It’s a different culture in many ways. One where pride, self reliance, and community are really important. If you want to have a chance at solving some of these problems and answering these questions you should be aware of this.
soulofmischief 6y ago
Self-determinism is something I really struggle with. I was always extremely poor growing up, even homeless at times during high school. I watched countless friends from middle-class families totally squander their futures and now they mostly work dead-end jobs. Meanwhile I was homeless after high school, robbed of my scholarships, and had to suffer greatly for years in order to get on my feet. I feel like I earned the money I have. And that I deserve even more. At the same time, everywhere I go people tell me how smart and adaptable I am and it makes me feel like I cannot base my expectations of others upon myself.
- oblio 6y ago
  I think the core principle is that exceptionalism is exceptional. Don't ask masses of people to be exceptional. It's impossible, that's why "exceptional" comes from "exception".
  - soulofmischief 6y ago
    So I guess we have to define what is exceptional.
    - oblio 6y ago
      That's easy, here it goes: Rising above one's social class at birth is exceptional.
      - soulofmischief 6y ago
        What do you think is the lower bound?

refurb 6y ago

Hard to be empathetic if you don’t even know what it’s like to be in their shoes. And plenty of conservatives care about the poor. Ever been down south in a poor area? People look out for their neighbors way more than they do in big cities.

XorNot 6y ago
Caring about people you can see, hear and talk to is the bare minimum of human empathy. The South doesn't get points for that while lobbying to destroy people based on stereotypes it imagines. The strongest opinions on any group are always from those with the least contact with them.
- refurb 6y ago
  With minimal contact you get a forced, paternalistic empathy. Picture “the white mans burden” in Africa.
- tjs8rj 6y ago
  I think this is such a reductive take of The South. A great tool for understanding a culture is sometimes to place it historically so you can be more objective. For one, The South has more black people and poor than anywhere else in the country, meanwhile liberal states like Oregon, Vermont, and so on are some of the whitest, so the theory that it’s about lack of contact is obviously lacking. The South places strong emphasis on self-reliance and community, to a degree other areas might consider to a fault. That manifests in wanting smaller government, less outside intervention, close-knit communities and neighbor friendliness, and so on. Someone “whining about how hard life is and begging for handouts” (said by someone from The South) is in their eyes selfishly draining their community because of their lack of self reliance. To an extent: this is true. The South is relatively poor so they know better than most - there are many people who would rather get handouts than make better decisions. This is also wrong in many cases: many people are poor systematically, and are in a rut where self reliance isn’t enough. There’s tons of complexity to these things that both sides paint black and white. The South isn’t your culture but mean, like some seem to think. It’s a different culture in many ways. One where pride, self reliance, and community are really important. If you want to have a chance at solving some of these problems and answering these questions you should be aware of this.

soulofmischief 6y ago

Self-determinism is something I really struggle with. I was always extremely poor growing up, even homeless at times during high school. I watched countless friends from middle-class families totally squander their futures and now they mostly work dead-end jobs. Meanwhile I was homeless after high school, robbed of my scholarships, and had to suffer greatly for years in order to get on my feet. I feel like I earned the money I have. And that I deserve even more. At the same time, everywhere I go people tell me how smart and adaptable I am and it makes me feel like I cannot base my expectations of others upon myself.

oblio 6y ago
I think the core principle is that exceptionalism is exceptional. Don't ask masses of people to be exceptional. It's impossible, that's why "exceptional" comes from "exception".
- soulofmischief 6y ago
  So I guess we have to define what is exceptional.
  - oblio 6y ago
    That's easy, here it goes: Rising above one's social class at birth is exceptional.
    - soulofmischief 6y ago
      What do you think is the lower bound?