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Some of those things you've listed at the end make life worth living. No, we need to make those things more environmentally friendly, not regress as a species.

xiphias2 6y ago
For a gamer the new laptop is make life worth living, so I guess it's all relative :) But sure, if a person doesn't care about getting a new computer, it's not totally fine as well.
paulcole 6y ago
I never said they didn’t. I said don’t delude yourself that buying a used laptop has any real impact on the environment. There’s simply no way to have a biological child and be environmentally friendly. Can’t put it any more simply. I’ve got no issue with people who want biological kids. Just acknowledge that it’s a selfish choice and don’t pretend that you can buy a used laptop like that matters in the slightest.
- pjerem 6y ago
  I think you underestimate network effect. What is important is not your direct impact on environment by using a old computer. But what really is, is : - proving to the world around you that the same work can be done with a good old computer for 10x less money. - proving yourself that life can be lived without buying new things every once a while (computers, cars, furniture ...) - enabling basically everyone to have access to a decent computer, and to the internet - it forces you to understand how such a central concept of our era just works and how you, as a human being, have the power to make it work as long as possible I know it can be difficult to understand this on HN, but the vast majority of humanity doesn't have any control over the computer they use. The industry just telled them that computers are complex and "sort of magic" objects that just works or get irremediably slow. So, the real impact on the environment you have by using "old" computers, is proving to yourself, and to the world - including your kids - , that caring about what you already own is an enjoyable way to live full of real gratifications that are not just the dopamine peak you've got when you unbox a new computer. For your point on the kids, I agree with you. But kids are just the number one reason we try to keep this planet livable. What's the point of preserving this planet if the humanity is going to die in the next 100 years ? We are talking about keeping our home livable, not a collective suicide.
  - paulcole 6y ago
    > it forces you to understand how such a central concept of our era just works and how you, as a human being, have the power to make it work as long as possible It does no such thing. Instead it tricks someone into thinking that buying a used laptop is impactful when it absolutely truly isn’t. It lets them feel good about the many truly awful decisions they make on a daily basis. If a person thinks that buying a used anything is how we “make it work as long as possible” they are sorely mistaken. It’s like thinking a guy sticking an oar in the water is going to slow the Titanic. Yes, technically the Titanic has slowed down by a minute amount but the icebergs not going to notice the difference. > What's the point of preserving this planet if the humanity is going to die in the next 100 years? This is a great question and one we’re seeing play out right now. I don’t think the timeline is as short as 100 years but life 250 years from now is going to be absolutely awful. Personally, I don’t care one bit. I’ll be dead and I’m not adding more people to the mess. But if someone does care and they’re having kids, they need to do a helluva lot more than teach them to buy used laptops.

xiphias2 6y ago

For a gamer the new laptop is make life worth living, so I guess it's all relative :) But sure, if a person doesn't care about getting a new computer, it's not totally fine as well.

paulcole 6y ago

I never said they didn’t. I said don’t delude yourself that buying a used laptop has any real impact on the environment. There’s simply no way to have a biological child and be environmentally friendly. Can’t put it any more simply. I’ve got no issue with people who want biological kids. Just acknowledge that it’s a selfish choice and don’t pretend that you can buy a used laptop like that matters in the slightest.

pjerem 6y ago
I think you underestimate network effect. What is important is not your direct impact on environment by using a old computer. But what really is, is : - proving to the world around you that the same work can be done with a good old computer for 10x less money. - proving yourself that life can be lived without buying new things every once a while (computers, cars, furniture ...) - enabling basically everyone to have access to a decent computer, and to the internet - it forces you to understand how such a central concept of our era just works and how you, as a human being, have the power to make it work as long as possible I know it can be difficult to understand this on HN, but the vast majority of humanity doesn't have any control over the computer they use. The industry just telled them that computers are complex and "sort of magic" objects that just works or get irremediably slow. So, the real impact on the environment you have by using "old" computers, is proving to yourself, and to the world - including your kids - , that caring about what you already own is an enjoyable way to live full of real gratifications that are not just the dopamine peak you've got when you unbox a new computer. For your point on the kids, I agree with you. But kids are just the number one reason we try to keep this planet livable. What's the point of preserving this planet if the humanity is going to die in the next 100 years ? We are talking about keeping our home livable, not a collective suicide.
- paulcole 6y ago
  > it forces you to understand how such a central concept of our era just works and how you, as a human being, have the power to make it work as long as possible It does no such thing. Instead it tricks someone into thinking that buying a used laptop is impactful when it absolutely truly isn’t. It lets them feel good about the many truly awful decisions they make on a daily basis. If a person thinks that buying a used anything is how we “make it work as long as possible” they are sorely mistaken. It’s like thinking a guy sticking an oar in the water is going to slow the Titanic. Yes, technically the Titanic has slowed down by a minute amount but the icebergs not going to notice the difference. > What's the point of preserving this planet if the humanity is going to die in the next 100 years? This is a great question and one we’re seeing play out right now. I don’t think the timeline is as short as 100 years but life 250 years from now is going to be absolutely awful. Personally, I don’t care one bit. I’ll be dead and I’m not adding more people to the mess. But if someone does care and they’re having kids, they need to do a helluva lot more than teach them to buy used laptops.