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It's the same point over and over again. A bank can give out a loan because it is operating in a place where the government (a.k.a people) give it a place to op
by cmehdy 6y ago
It's the same point over and over again. A bank can give out a loan because it is operating in a place where the government (a.k.a people) give it a place to operate, in a system of currency regulated by governments, and ultimately has to answer to governments when it runs into the limits of its smoke screens.
What this inevitably means is that when it fucks up and doesn't juggle fast enough or people all change their expectations (like if everybody wants to suddenly pull money out of their accounts), then the money that doesn't exist has to end up existing one way or another - and governments foot the bill directly and/or indirectly.
In less "agitated" times, that "fake" money being created is a direct measure of the value that banks are agreeing to see in the people they loan the money out to (and in fact they see a higher value over the exact same horizon of time and at any given value of t, otherwise they wouldn't loan the money out unless regulations force them to).
In both cases, money that circulates at any moment in time is money that exists in the system (yes it's a tautology), with money that exists at t+1 being paid one way or another by the system. If everybody takes out their money right now and that's more than what the banks have, governments step in and the impact over the financial system is the value of money itself falling, with the cost being that everybody having relied on money now has less value out of it.
It's not because it's not using the term "dollar" that it isn't a cost, just like on the other end of the system where we bet on humans creating value the humans in question aren't magically producing fully-formed dollar bills. Both ends of the system aren't formulated in dollars in and of themselves, because dollars are only the medium to 'illustrate' or represent the value, not the value itself. Ceci n'est pas une pipe, etc.
- ClumsyPilot 6y agoThe provlem with your concept it that the ratio of 'real' money to 'fake' money is actually zero. There are only three kinds of money: central bank reserves, which you can't get access to, cash, and commercial money, what you are calling 'fake money' So if everyone tried to take out the money in cash, yes, there is simply less cash than 'digital money', so its impossible. But there is no 'real money' except cash that you as an ibdividual has ever had your hands on. The system, as designed, cannot work without banks. So its unfair to call banks 'smoke and mirrors' - you would have to redesigns the whole economy to get rid of them
- cmehdy 6y agoIf the ratio of real money to fake money is zero, there's either infinite fake money or no real money. That's already either 100% off or an infinity off from your previous message. By the way, you're the one who called it fake money in your message, I responded to that. The cash that I have had in my hands is as true as whatever field in a database at a bank, in that whichever we refer to either way the bank will agree to make use of it equally and if it doesn't or can't it won't discriminate either in its inability to use the value. In both cases, when shit hits the fan and the value that banks bet on needs to be present and isn't, the system as a whole pays the cost of that. Printing new bills to put in the banks vault does create the "money" as in bill but not as in value. I don't even understand what you're trying to argue here, quite frankly. I have no problem with the social constructs of money and the fact that banks through loans are a vessel for humans to inject value into the system, so I don't see what conversation we're having here.