9 ms·

Off-topic, but I wonder if decriminalizing all drugs will kill the cartel profits. From what I can see, they make a ton of profit due to the illegality(risk-pro

by luis8 6y ago

Off-topic, but I wonder if decriminalizing all drugs will kill the cartel profits. From what I can see, they make a ton of profit due to the illegality(risk-profit) and this big profit is how they became so powerful. Food for thought I guess.

thomastjeffery 6y ago
That isn't off topic at all. One of the biggest motivations for decriminalization is to do disincentivize black markets.
- tayo42 6y ago
  Decriminalization? I don't think that removed black markets. You still need to purchase your drugs. You just don't get trouble for being the buyer or possessing it? Unless I misread this and they're going to have lsd and mdma stores in California?
  - elliotec 6y ago
    Decriminalization is the first step to legalization. So, while we wont see psychedelic stores in CA tomorrow, we could see incremental regulation that eventually leads to literal LSD stores, killing the black market. Like cannabis dispensaries. Seems crazy to think that was possible 20 years ago, but I get weed delivered to me in Utah now, and get to work on the tech that enables that too.
sep_field 6y ago
This is a good argument in general but unfortunately it depends on tax structures and other external forces. For instance, cannabis is legal in many states now yet cartels still distribute it at huge profits simply because the taxes are exorbitant and also that there are weird rules about who can buy how much when (example: prior to adult use laws I still purchased cannabis illegally even though I technically could have gotten a medical license because it was so complex to get one). So while I firmly believe the answer is yes, there is still a balancing act that needs to happen.
someonehere 6y ago
I don’t think it would. Legalizing drugs would come at the cost of governments and cities taxing it and putting it above what price is on the street for cartel product. The cartels can easily undercut on price because they don’t pay any taxes.
- Clewza313 6y ago
  Which is why we all still buy moonshine at speakeasies instead of a pack of Bud Light at the supermarket, amirite? Slightly more seriously, obviously people will continue to smuggle if there's a profit to be made, but a lot of consumers and producers will quite willingly switch to legal options if they can. Jail time is pretty expensive too.
- luis8 6y ago
  Could the gov take over the production and then simply choke cartel profits?. They could make some small profit out of it to fund addiction health rehab programs. I'm just trying to find a different approach because the current war against them doesn't seem to be working.
- 15155 6y ago
  Cartels can't compete on quality or safety. People are happy to pay a 28%+ tax here in CO for legalized, recreational marijuana - a relatively expensive-to-produce product.
  - robbyking 6y ago
    Absolutely. I'm in my 40's, and not only was buying cannabis a little sketchy when I was younger, but you literally had no idea what you were getting: indica, sativa, percentage of THC, percentage of CBD, etc. It was all just a total crapshoot.
- computerphage 6y ago
  Well, if the tax rate is lower than the cost of running a large organized crime organization and trafficking the drugs into the country, then the legal price may still be lower. There's also the fact that buyers ALSO care about the risk. Many people will only purchase drugs legally, if given both options.
pvarangot 6y ago
There's no "cartel" behind psychedelics... honestly. All the way up the supply chain everyone is either poor as fuck or independently wealthy by other means.
- mandelbrotwurst 6y ago
  No one in the middle?
  - pvarangot 6y ago
    Not by selling psychedelics, maybe yes in like, a chemical engineer working on a plant and side loading some production or making sure a package gets lost. But it's almost imposible to make a middle class normal life out of selling this stuff. The market is just not there. For stimulants maybe and yeah your shady neighborhood cocaine dealer will probably get you some LSD and resell at a markup price after getting it from the friendly neighborhood psychonaut or public relations guy that needs to be stocked on MDMA for parties, but that's not their main job.
    - 3131s 6y ago
      No drug dealer wants to sell psychedelics because your customers will act like morons, get arrested, and then snitch on you in their panicked, delirious state. I've seen it happen many times. A single sheet goes for about 400$ in most places if you have good connections, or at least it used to. That's 100 doses, which is going to take a lot longer to run through compared a similar amount of weed, for example. So all around it's bad business, but somebody like Petaluma Al was probably making a decent living.
      - pvarangot 6y ago
        Hahaha yeah I mean not get them arrested but I heard really weird stories when people get delirious and think their dealers have some kind of magical power or connection to a secret society. I guess that's another reason why people that will sell you psychedelics usually do it for some kind of cause or to enhance another bussineses they have.

by luis8 6y ago

thomastjeffery 6y ago

That isn't off topic at all. One of the biggest motivations for decriminalization is to do disincentivize black markets.

tayo42 6y ago
Decriminalization? I don't think that removed black markets. You still need to purchase your drugs. You just don't get trouble for being the buyer or possessing it? Unless I misread this and they're going to have lsd and mdma stores in California?
- elliotec 6y ago
  Decriminalization is the first step to legalization. So, while we wont see psychedelic stores in CA tomorrow, we could see incremental regulation that eventually leads to literal LSD stores, killing the black market. Like cannabis dispensaries. Seems crazy to think that was possible 20 years ago, but I get weed delivered to me in Utah now, and get to work on the tech that enables that too.

sep_field 6y ago

This is a good argument in general but unfortunately it depends on tax structures and other external forces. For instance, cannabis is legal in many states now yet cartels still distribute it at huge profits simply because the taxes are exorbitant and also that there are weird rules about who can buy how much when (example: prior to adult use laws I still purchased cannabis illegally even though I technically could have gotten a medical license because it was so complex to get one). So while I firmly believe the answer is yes, there is still a balancing act that needs to happen.

someonehere 6y ago

I don’t think it would. Legalizing drugs would come at the cost of governments and cities taxing it and putting it above what price is on the street for cartel product. The cartels can easily undercut on price because they don’t pay any taxes.

Clewza313 6y ago
Which is why we all still buy moonshine at speakeasies instead of a pack of Bud Light at the supermarket, amirite? Slightly more seriously, obviously people will continue to smuggle if there's a profit to be made, but a lot of consumers and producers will quite willingly switch to legal options if they can. Jail time is pretty expensive too.
luis8 6y ago
Could the gov take over the production and then simply choke cartel profits?. They could make some small profit out of it to fund addiction health rehab programs. I'm just trying to find a different approach because the current war against them doesn't seem to be working.
15155 6y ago
Cartels can't compete on quality or safety. People are happy to pay a 28%+ tax here in CO for legalized, recreational marijuana - a relatively expensive-to-produce product.
- robbyking 6y ago
  Absolutely. I'm in my 40's, and not only was buying cannabis a little sketchy when I was younger, but you literally had no idea what you were getting: indica, sativa, percentage of THC, percentage of CBD, etc. It was all just a total crapshoot.
computerphage 6y ago
Well, if the tax rate is lower than the cost of running a large organized crime organization and trafficking the drugs into the country, then the legal price may still be lower. There's also the fact that buyers ALSO care about the risk. Many people will only purchase drugs legally, if given both options.

pvarangot 6y ago

There's no "cartel" behind psychedelics... honestly. All the way up the supply chain everyone is either poor as fuck or independently wealthy by other means.

mandelbrotwurst 6y ago
No one in the middle?
- pvarangot 6y ago
  Not by selling psychedelics, maybe yes in like, a chemical engineer working on a plant and side loading some production or making sure a package gets lost. But it's almost imposible to make a middle class normal life out of selling this stuff. The market is just not there. For stimulants maybe and yeah your shady neighborhood cocaine dealer will probably get you some LSD and resell at a markup price after getting it from the friendly neighborhood psychonaut or public relations guy that needs to be stocked on MDMA for parties, but that's not their main job.
  - 3131s 6y ago
    No drug dealer wants to sell psychedelics because your customers will act like morons, get arrested, and then snitch on you in their panicked, delirious state. I've seen it happen many times. A single sheet goes for about 400$ in most places if you have good connections, or at least it used to. That's 100 doses, which is going to take a lot longer to run through compared a similar amount of weed, for example. So all around it's bad business, but somebody like Petaluma Al was probably making a decent living.
    - pvarangot 6y ago
      Hahaha yeah I mean not get them arrested but I heard really weird stories when people get delirious and think their dealers have some kind of magical power or connection to a secret society. I guess that's another reason why people that will sell you psychedelics usually do it for some kind of cause or to enhance another bussineses they have.