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> Is free college part of the "safety net" given that the majority of people in Scandinavian countries don't go to college? Half of the people have tertiary ed

> Is free college part of the "safety net" given that the majority of people in Scandinavian countries don't go to college? Half of the people have tertiary education. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_... > How is this relevant to a discussion of minimum wage workers? Gee, I dont know, maybe becuase college students with no degrees has a higher probability of a minimum wage. But he can study and work, not to choose between both or a life-enslaving credit. > Is working half hours a problem minimum wage workers actually face? Minimum-wage earners are people too, not mindless drones. You have there colleges students, second-income parents, people trying to create their own business, people working in the arts, volunteers. > For minimum wage workers, the same exists in the U.S. In a gold plan you still have to co-pay 20% of your costs, so good luck with an unforseen 30k medical bill. https://www.healthcare.gov/choose-a-plan/plans-categories/ https://www.healthcare.gov/choose-a-plan/plans-categories/ > Option to join an union with no repercussion >Same thing in the U.S. LOL, you must live a very sheltered life. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/business/coronavirus-unions-layoffs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/business/coronavirus-unio... https://news.yahoo.com/nearly-20-of-workers-illegally-fired-for-union-activity-report-154315586.html https://news.yahoo.com/nearly-20-of-workers-illegally-fired-...

rayiner 6y ago
> Half of the people have tertiary education. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_... Here is the latest data in one chart: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/figures/images/figure-cac-3.svg https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/figures/images/figure-cac-3.... In the U.S. 47% of people have a post-secondary degree. It's 43% in Sweden and 38% in Denmark. I'd imagine vanishingly small numbers of low-wage workers have college debt, or would qualify to get into college. > Gee, I don't know, maybe becuase college students with no degrees has a higher probability of a minimum wage. But he can study and work, not to choose between both or a life-enslaving credit. The vast majority of workers earning minimum wage aren't qualified to go to college. If they are, they can get government-guaranteed student loans, which are repaid based on income levels after college. And it's not like college is actually free in Scandinavia. You still have the opportunity cost and cost of living. Student debt levels in Sweden are actually similar to those in the United States, $20,000-25,000: https://qz.com/85017/college-in-sweden-is-free-but-students-still-have-a-ton-of-debt-how-can-that-be/ https://qz.com/85017/college-in-sweden-is-free-but-students-... Student debt in the U.S. is also not "life enslaving." To go back to my example of someone making minimum wage in Maryland. If that person somehow has a college degree and the average $25,000 of debt, they'll pay only $24/month on their student loans: https://studentloanhero.com/calculators/pay-as-you-earn-calculator https://studentloanhero.com/calculators/pay-as-you-earn-calc.... This is for federal student loans, but more than 90% of all student debt is federal loans. > Minimum-wage earners are people too, not mindless drones. You have there colleges students, second-income parents, people trying to create their own business, people working in the arts, volunteers. I mean do minimum wage workers actually have trouble getting their employers to give them half-hours, such that they need a law that forces their employer to accept that? In the U.S., it's so easy to hire and fire workers that employers are very flexible about low-skill, hourly workers only wanting to work say 20 hours a week. They just hire more workers. > In a gold plan you still have to co-pay 20% of your costs, so good luck with an unforseen 30k medical bill. https://www.healthcare.gov/choose-a-plan/plans-categories/ https://www.healthcare.gov/choose-a-plan/plans-categories/ Yes, but the co-insurance is subject to Cost Sharing Reduction: https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/cost-sharing-reduction https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/cost-sharing-reduction. If you actually get sick on the Gold plan that I was looking at, your maximum out-of-pocket costs is $6,500. Which is a significant amount, no doubt, but most people making minimum wage are young and will not get sick. > https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/business/coronavirus-unio https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/business/coronavirus-unio... > https://news.yahoo.com/nearly-20-of-workers-illegally-fired- https://news.yahoo.com/nearly-20-of-workers-illegally-fired-... Firing workers for trying to unionize is illegal under U.S. law. I'm sure employers in Scandinavian countries never violate labor laws?
- cloudfifty 6y ago
  > In the U.S. 47% of people have a post-secondary degree. It's 43% in Sweden and 38% in Denmark. You guys are missing the point; social mobility for all. Also, if so called low-skilled jobs still provides a comfortable living in Scandinavia, it will obviously skew those numbers. > And it's not like college is actually free in Scandinavia. You still have the opportunity cost and cost of living. Yes, you can choose to remote or on-site education. There's also a cultural thing where young adults are encouraged to move out from their parents sooner rather than later. The loan is taken from a government agency, that means non-profit. The current interests rate for student debt in Sweden is 0.05%. This is surely a major difference from the US? > but most people making minimum wage are young and will not get sick This seem very optimistic, bordering cynical. I wonder how long the Uber waiting times would be if there's only healthy young people driving (and some even like to assume that it's only part timers at that).
  - rayiner 6y ago
    > The loan is taken from a government agency, that means non-profit. The current interests rate for student debt in Sweden is 0.05%. This is surely a major difference from the US? Interest rates in the US are higher, but unlike Sweden your repayment is based on income. If you make less money, your monthly payment will be much less, and the debt will be forgiven after 20 years.

rayiner 6y ago

> Half of the people have tertiary education. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_... Here is the latest data in one chart: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/figures/images/figure-cac-3.svg https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/figures/images/figure-cac-3.... In the U.S. 47% of people have a post-secondary degree. It's 43% in Sweden and 38% in Denmark. I'd imagine vanishingly small numbers of low-wage workers have college debt, or would qualify to get into college. > Gee, I don't know, maybe becuase college students with no degrees has a higher probability of a minimum wage. But he can study and work, not to choose between both or a life-enslaving credit. The vast majority of workers earning minimum wage aren't qualified to go to college. If they are, they can get government-guaranteed student loans, which are repaid based on income levels after college. And it's not like college is actually free in Scandinavia. You still have the opportunity cost and cost of living. Student debt levels in Sweden are actually similar to those in the United States, $20,000-25,000: https://qz.com/85017/college-in-sweden-is-free-but-students-still-have-a-ton-of-debt-how-can-that-be/ https://qz.com/85017/college-in-sweden-is-free-but-students-... Student debt in the U.S. is also not "life enslaving." To go back to my example of someone making minimum wage in Maryland. If that person somehow has a college degree and the average $25,000 of debt, they'll pay only $24/month on their student loans: https://studentloanhero.com/calculators/pay-as-you-earn-calculator https://studentloanhero.com/calculators/pay-as-you-earn-calc.... This is for federal student loans, but more than 90% of all student debt is federal loans. > Minimum-wage earners are people too, not mindless drones. You have there colleges students, second-income parents, people trying to create their own business, people working in the arts, volunteers. I mean do minimum wage workers actually have trouble getting their employers to give them half-hours, such that they need a law that forces their employer to accept that? In the U.S., it's so easy to hire and fire workers that employers are very flexible about low-skill, hourly workers only wanting to work say 20 hours a week. They just hire more workers. > In a gold plan you still have to co-pay 20% of your costs, so good luck with an unforseen 30k medical bill. https://www.healthcare.gov/choose-a-plan/plans-categories/ https://www.healthcare.gov/choose-a-plan/plans-categories/ Yes, but the co-insurance is subject to Cost Sharing Reduction: https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/cost-sharing-reduction https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/cost-sharing-reduction. If you actually get sick on the Gold plan that I was looking at, your maximum out-of-pocket costs is $6,500. Which is a significant amount, no doubt, but most people making minimum wage are young and will not get sick. > https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/business/coronavirus-unio https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/business/coronavirus-unio... > https://news.yahoo.com/nearly-20-of-workers-illegally-fired- https://news.yahoo.com/nearly-20-of-workers-illegally-fired-... Firing workers for trying to unionize is illegal under U.S. law. I'm sure employers in Scandinavian countries never violate labor laws?

cloudfifty 6y ago
> In the U.S. 47% of people have a post-secondary degree. It's 43% in Sweden and 38% in Denmark. You guys are missing the point; social mobility for all. Also, if so called low-skilled jobs still provides a comfortable living in Scandinavia, it will obviously skew those numbers. > And it's not like college is actually free in Scandinavia. You still have the opportunity cost and cost of living. Yes, you can choose to remote or on-site education. There's also a cultural thing where young adults are encouraged to move out from their parents sooner rather than later. The loan is taken from a government agency, that means non-profit. The current interests rate for student debt in Sweden is 0.05%. This is surely a major difference from the US? > but most people making minimum wage are young and will not get sick This seem very optimistic, bordering cynical. I wonder how long the Uber waiting times would be if there's only healthy young people driving (and some even like to assume that it's only part timers at that).
- rayiner 6y ago
  > The loan is taken from a government agency, that means non-profit. The current interests rate for student debt in Sweden is 0.05%. This is surely a major difference from the US? Interest rates in the US are higher, but unlike Sweden your repayment is based on income. If you make less money, your monthly payment will be much less, and the debt will be forgiven after 20 years.