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What does this have to do with the environmental harms caused by crypto? Two wrongs don’t make a right.

kriops 6y ago
But croptocurrencies have legitimate value propositions that needs to be recognized if you want to put the emission/energy-argument forward in good faith.
scotty79 6y ago
Great demand usually does great things for the future of supply and since renewables are getting cheapest I think they will get the most development in the future. We may end up with way more resilient power grid and abundance of clean energy thanks to cryptocurrencies.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 6y ago
  This is a very hot take! If you believe this, you should oppose all measures to conserve energy, and advocate for dumping as much energy into the atmosphere as heat waste as possible. There’s nothing about the argument that applies to crypto more than any other energy use.
  - scotty79 6y ago
    Energy dumped as heat into the atmosphere does nothing bad to the climate. And I am not particularly for any energy conservation measures. Except for isolating buildings because most dirty stuff we burn is for that purpose and not isolating your home is just negligence. Wasting electrical energy is only bad because it came from burning stuff. But I don't think any fossil fuel power plant was closed because people used less. Maybe some were not built because of that, but then some renewables and nuclear power were not built for that reason as well and I believe that's very bad.
    - fshbbdssbbgdd 6y ago
      How far does this mindset extend? Would you support spoiling food to increase demand for more efficient food production? Destroying homes to increase demand for more efficient home construction? > Wasting electrical energy is only bad because it came from burning stuff. But I don't think any fossil fuel power plant was closed because people used less. Coal plants are indeed closing because they are no longer profitable. Natural gas is the main “on-demand” power source, and plants raise and lower production based on demand. Increased power consumption will delay the transition away from coal, and keep natural gas plants running more often.
      - scotty79 6y ago
        Destroying few delapidated homes to make space to build a block of flats on that plot of land? Sure! But not to drive up demand there are better ways to do that in case of housing. There are places where more efficient housing can't be built bot because lack of demand but local regulations that serve local wealth owners. Waste food... Not so much bacause food preduction doesn't really suffer as a result of low demand. We pretty much grow food as efficiently as it is possible and in places we don't we do it for different reasons than just lack of demand. There are food producers that destroy some food they produced to drive up the prices by increasing ratio of demand to supply. Coal power plants close because there are cheaper ways to make electricity now, not because demand dropped. Crypto mining operations can provide load on-demand which is almost as good as power production on demand while balancing power grid. Nuclear power plant plus huge crypto mine can provide as much flexibility as coal power plant if not more.
        fshbbdssbbgdd 6y ago
        > Coal power plants close because there are cheaper ways to make electricity now, not because demand dropped. The price for power is set by supply and demand. Increased demand for power increases the price. This means that coal plants can afford to operate depending on the amount of demand. Here’s a story about coal plants closing due to lower demand: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/the-covid-19-economic-slump-is-closing-down-coal-plants/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/the-covid-1... Here’s another article about how natural gas plants are replacing coal and nuclear: https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/electric-power-and-natural-gas/our-insights/the-future-of-natural-gas-in-north-america# https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/electric-power-and-natur... Any increase in demand for power will increase carbon emission by keeping coal plants from shutting down, building more natural natural gas plants, and keeping those plants online more often. Renewables are important, but only satisfy a minority of demand for electricity.

But croptocurrencies have legitimate value propositions that needs to be recognized if you want to put the emission/energy-argument forward in good faith.

scotty79 6y ago

Great demand usually does great things for the future of supply and since renewables are getting cheapest I think they will get the most development in the future. We may end up with way more resilient power grid and abundance of clean energy thanks to cryptocurrencies.

fshbbdssbbgdd 6y ago
This is a very hot take! If you believe this, you should oppose all measures to conserve energy, and advocate for dumping as much energy into the atmosphere as heat waste as possible. There’s nothing about the argument that applies to crypto more than any other energy use.
- scotty79 6y ago
  Energy dumped as heat into the atmosphere does nothing bad to the climate. And I am not particularly for any energy conservation measures. Except for isolating buildings because most dirty stuff we burn is for that purpose and not isolating your home is just negligence. Wasting electrical energy is only bad because it came from burning stuff. But I don't think any fossil fuel power plant was closed because people used less. Maybe some were not built because of that, but then some renewables and nuclear power were not built for that reason as well and I believe that's very bad.
  - fshbbdssbbgdd 6y ago
    How far does this mindset extend? Would you support spoiling food to increase demand for more efficient food production? Destroying homes to increase demand for more efficient home construction? > Wasting electrical energy is only bad because it came from burning stuff. But I don't think any fossil fuel power plant was closed because people used less. Coal plants are indeed closing because they are no longer profitable. Natural gas is the main “on-demand” power source, and plants raise and lower production based on demand. Increased power consumption will delay the transition away from coal, and keep natural gas plants running more often.
    - scotty79 6y ago
      Destroying few delapidated homes to make space to build a block of flats on that plot of land? Sure! But not to drive up demand there are better ways to do that in case of housing. There are places where more efficient housing can't be built bot because lack of demand but local regulations that serve local wealth owners. Waste food... Not so much bacause food preduction doesn't really suffer as a result of low demand. We pretty much grow food as efficiently as it is possible and in places we don't we do it for different reasons than just lack of demand. There are food producers that destroy some food they produced to drive up the prices by increasing ratio of demand to supply. Coal power plants close because there are cheaper ways to make electricity now, not because demand dropped. Crypto mining operations can provide load on-demand which is almost as good as power production on demand while balancing power grid. Nuclear power plant plus huge crypto mine can provide as much flexibility as coal power plant if not more.
      - fshbbdssbbgdd 6y ago
        > Coal power plants close because there are cheaper ways to make electricity now, not because demand dropped. The price for power is set by supply and demand. Increased demand for power increases the price. This means that coal plants can afford to operate depending on the amount of demand. Here’s a story about coal plants closing due to lower demand: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/the-covid-19-economic-slump-is-closing-down-coal-plants/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/the-covid-1... Here’s another article about how natural gas plants are replacing coal and nuclear: https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/electric-power-and-natural-gas/our-insights/the-future-of-natural-gas-in-north-america# https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/electric-power-and-natur... Any increase in demand for power will increase carbon emission by keeping coal plants from shutting down, building more natural natural gas plants, and keeping those plants online more often. Renewables are important, but only satisfy a minority of demand for electricity.