6 ms·

I hear a lot of people saying they want to do this or that they could do this but... I would love to hear more stories about how it works in practice. Like, isn

by tudelo 6y ago

I hear a lot of people saying they want to do this or that they could do this but... I would love to hear more stories about how it works in practice. Like, isn't there some level of legal liability, whether justified or not, that you would be opening yourself up to by doing this? Especially if the companies are in any way related, which could probably be hard to quantify.

matz1 6y ago
I know at least 1 friend doing this. Of course you don't tell the company know you are doing this. It require good time management for sure. The risk are low.
mnouquet 6y ago
> isn't there some level of legal liability I technically have 3 jobs, two unrelated "full-time" SE roles, and 1 mom&pop store where I handle all but day-to-day operations (handled by the gf). To be cold bloody honest, unless you are SE for a serie-A start-up a 40h weeks is probably 20h work, 20h bs. If you were SE for a serie-A start-up, a 40h week would probably be 80h-paid-20h anyway.
- rjbwork 6y ago
  >I technically have 3 jobs, two unrelated "full-time" SE roles, You mean to say that you are collecting two paychecks under the pretense of each company thinking you are working full time?
  - mnouquet 6y ago
    Yes, though none of my contracts with either company prevent me from doing so.
    - icedchai 6y ago
      how do you manage the logistics? I could see it working if the jobs had enough of a time zone differential and were flexible about hours.
      - mnouquet 6y ago
        The biggest hurdle is the morning scrum, I've got two pretty much back to back between 10am and 11am. Other than that, both are relatively flexible and there is not much critical meetings which can't tweaked.
- wwww4all 6y ago
  I’m curious that any Tech company allows multiple full time employment. All tech companies require employees to sign work for hire intellectual property assignment. You must disclose any other intellectual property agreements with other entities. Even taking on a side job contract has IP issues. Most companies claim full ownership of any IP produced by employees at any time, on any devices. There’s also workman’s comp and medical insurance, unemployment insurance and all other issues that conflict with multiple full time employment. I know people that work full time and do a side gig. Either their own business or a part time under the table contract job. I’ve never known anyone work multiple full time SE jobs. That leaves easily discoverable paper trail.
  - icedchai 6y ago
    Why do you think he's concerned if they "allow" it or not? The paper trail is not as obvious as you think. The insurance issues you note are not a real problem. If, for example, he needed to decline health coverage at one employer he can simply say he has it through a partner. It will not be questioned. The workers comp and unemployment insurance won't matter. Multiple jobs are normal for many folks and the payroll companies and government won't care.
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
I worked at a company where a remote worker tried this. It only lasted a few months because the decline in his performance was more obvious than he thought. He also suddenly become more difficult to schedule meetings around because he was pulled between two companies. Corporate counsel said it wouldn't be worth pursuing anything against him. He won't get any positive references from anyone, because he tried to make the two-job situation work by shifting more work to his teammates and doing the bare minimum to not get fired. The real risk is that the companies find out about each other and you lose both jobs. This is a real possibility if your new employer does a background check and calls the old employer to confirm start and end dates, which I suspect will become standard practice in any remote company going forward. The only way the two-jobs scenario works out for anyone is if you can find two companies where both managers aren't good at managing performance. Either that, or if you're a superhuman developer who can actually put in the equivalent of two 40-hour workweeks with the same energy for both companies, in which case you're better off getting a single 40-hour FAANG job that pays as much as two normal jobs anyway.
- matz1 6y ago
  It require some skills to manage for sure but a lot of full time job only require actual few hours of real works.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  I wonder why exactly companies would be against this, if 1. the employee's performance was acceptable, including their ability to schedule properly, and 2. the companies were not competitors where insider knowledge, IP ownership, etc. was an issue. If I could actually manage to do 40 full-time hours in company A and 40 full-time hours in unrelated company B, why should they care?
jandrewrogers 6y ago
I know people that do this. If you are doing it correctly then there is no deception, both companies are aware and expressly allowing it. The key condition is that the two companies are not competitive. Unstated, the people who are allowed to do this are superstars who are incredibly productive even at a reduced capacity. Companies view it in terms of retention risk: 75% of a superstar is much better than forcing the superstar to choose, which may leave you with 0% of a superstar.
- R0b0t1 6y ago
  But some companies might not want it but may never ask or clarify their position. What about that case?

by tudelo 6y ago

matz1 6y ago

I know at least 1 friend doing this. Of course you don't tell the company know you are doing this. It require good time management for sure. The risk are low.

mnouquet 6y ago

> isn't there some level of legal liability I technically have 3 jobs, two unrelated "full-time" SE roles, and 1 mom&pop store where I handle all but day-to-day operations (handled by the gf). To be cold bloody honest, unless you are SE for a serie-A start-up a 40h weeks is probably 20h work, 20h bs. If you were SE for a serie-A start-up, a 40h week would probably be 80h-paid-20h anyway.

rjbwork 6y ago
>I technically have 3 jobs, two unrelated "full-time" SE roles, You mean to say that you are collecting two paychecks under the pretense of each company thinking you are working full time?
- mnouquet 6y ago
  Yes, though none of my contracts with either company prevent me from doing so.
  - icedchai 6y ago
    how do you manage the logistics? I could see it working if the jobs had enough of a time zone differential and were flexible about hours.
    - mnouquet 6y ago
      The biggest hurdle is the morning scrum, I've got two pretty much back to back between 10am and 11am. Other than that, both are relatively flexible and there is not much critical meetings which can't tweaked.
wwww4all 6y ago
I’m curious that any Tech company allows multiple full time employment. All tech companies require employees to sign work for hire intellectual property assignment. You must disclose any other intellectual property agreements with other entities. Even taking on a side job contract has IP issues. Most companies claim full ownership of any IP produced by employees at any time, on any devices. There’s also workman’s comp and medical insurance, unemployment insurance and all other issues that conflict with multiple full time employment. I know people that work full time and do a side gig. Either their own business or a part time under the table contract job. I’ve never known anyone work multiple full time SE jobs. That leaves easily discoverable paper trail.
- icedchai 6y ago
  Why do you think he's concerned if they "allow" it or not? The paper trail is not as obvious as you think. The insurance issues you note are not a real problem. If, for example, he needed to decline health coverage at one employer he can simply say he has it through a partner. It will not be questioned. The workers comp and unemployment insurance won't matter. Multiple jobs are normal for many folks and the payroll companies and government won't care.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

I worked at a company where a remote worker tried this. It only lasted a few months because the decline in his performance was more obvious than he thought. He also suddenly become more difficult to schedule meetings around because he was pulled between two companies. Corporate counsel said it wouldn't be worth pursuing anything against him. He won't get any positive references from anyone, because he tried to make the two-job situation work by shifting more work to his teammates and doing the bare minimum to not get fired. The real risk is that the companies find out about each other and you lose both jobs. This is a real possibility if your new employer does a background check and calls the old employer to confirm start and end dates, which I suspect will become standard practice in any remote company going forward. The only way the two-jobs scenario works out for anyone is if you can find two companies where both managers aren't good at managing performance. Either that, or if you're a superhuman developer who can actually put in the equivalent of two 40-hour workweeks with the same energy for both companies, in which case you're better off getting a single 40-hour FAANG job that pays as much as two normal jobs anyway.

matz1 6y ago
It require some skills to manage for sure but a lot of full time job only require actual few hours of real works.
ryandrake 6y ago
I wonder why exactly companies would be against this, if 1. the employee's performance was acceptable, including their ability to schedule properly, and 2. the companies were not competitors where insider knowledge, IP ownership, etc. was an issue. If I could actually manage to do 40 full-time hours in company A and 40 full-time hours in unrelated company B, why should they care?

jandrewrogers 6y ago

I know people that do this. If you are doing it correctly then there is no deception, both companies are aware and expressly allowing it. The key condition is that the two companies are not competitive. Unstated, the people who are allowed to do this are superstars who are incredibly productive even at a reduced capacity. Companies view it in terms of retention risk: 75% of a superstar is much better than forcing the superstar to choose, which may leave you with 0% of a superstar.

R0b0t1 6y ago
But some companies might not want it but may never ask or clarify their position. What about that case?