5 ms·

Those same countries have very expansive social safety nets that are non-existent in the US.

by radus 6y ago

rayiner 6y ago
You mean like universal healthcare for low income people (Medicaid)? Or retirement security for low income people (Social security)? What exactly are you referring to?
- cambalache 6y ago
  Free college education 4-6 weeks of mandated paid vacation Substantial paid parental leave Option to opt in for half-time working and the companies are mandated to comply Universal healthcare not related to your job situation nor to the whims of the coverage of your health policy Option to join an union with no repercussion Any other question?
  - bhupy 6y ago
    Nobody doubts that Nordic countries have generous social safety nets, but I think rayiner is scoffing at the notion that the US's social safety net is "non-existent", which is laughable. The US spends close to 80% of its Federal budget on social programs, including Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, EITC, SNAP/EBT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#/media/File:2019_Federal_Budget_Infographic.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#/... And that's not even including State-level welfare. Each State has its own unemployment insurance, welfare programs, and subsidized state university. In Georgia (where my alma mater is), university is essentially free if you can maintain a GPA > 3.5. On top of all that, the government is currently debating another big round of welfare and stimulus. A Republican has proposed a massive overhaul of welfare to provide up to $15,000 a year in cash for parents: https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22264520/mitt-romney-checks-parents-4200 https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22264520/mitt-romney-chec...
    - dualthro 6y ago
      > In Georgia (where my alma mater is), university is essentially free if you can maintain a GPA > 3.5. Why do I always see that the GA Tech OMSCS is ~$10,000? This is a serious question. If it's essentially free with a good GPA I might actually enroll.
      - rayiner 6y ago
        The Georgia program (HOPE) is for in-state high-school students getting their undergraduate degree, not people getting graduate degrees.
        bhupy 6y ago
        I was referring to the more generous Zell-Miller scholarship. You get HOPE if you can maintain a GPA > 3.0.
        dualthro 6y ago
        Interesting. Guess it would be cheaper to go to an in person graduate program in Europe: https://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees https://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees
    - radus 6y ago
      I can see how you may read it that way, but I did not state that the US does not have any social safety nets - that would be as you pointed out, obviously false. To re-iterate, my point was that the US lacks very expansive social safety nets such as those present in Nordic countries, some of which were enumerated by cambalache. Were the US to adopt some of those policies, perhaps the minimum wage would be less important.
  - rayiner 6y ago
    > Free college education Is free college part of the "safety net" given that the majority of people in Scandinavian countries don't go to college? How is this relevant to a discussion of minimum wage workers? > 4-6 weeks of mandated paid vacation > Substantial paid parental leave Paid vacation and parental leave are good examples of social benefits that exist in Scandinavia but not in the U.S. > Option to opt in for half-time working and the companies are mandated to comply Is working half hours a problem minimum wage workers actually face? This sounds more like a benefit for more skilled workers, who > Universal healthcare not related to your job situation nor to the whims of the coverage of your health policy For minimum wage workers, the same exists in the U.S. A full-time minimum wage job where I live in Maryland pays $21,000. Through the Affordable Care Act, someone my age (36) at that income level can buy a "Gold" plan with low deductibles for $75/month. That works out to about 4.2% of income, basically the same as the higher income taxes you'd pay in Sweden on that same income. Except in Maryland your sales tax is 6% rather than the 25% VAT in Sweden. > Option to join an union with no repercussion Same thing in the U.S.
    - cambalache 6y ago
      > Is free college part of the "safety net" given that the majority of people in Scandinavian countries don't go to college? Half of the people have tertiary education. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_... > How is this relevant to a discussion of minimum wage workers? Gee, I dont know, maybe becuase college students with no degrees has a higher probability of a minimum wage. But he can study and work, not to choose between both or a life-enslaving credit. > Is working half hours a problem minimum wage workers actually face? Minimum-wage earners are people too, not mindless drones. You have there colleges students, second-income parents, people trying to create their own business, people working in the arts, volunteers. > For minimum wage workers, the same exists in the U.S. In a gold plan you still have to co-pay 20% of your costs, so good luck with an unforseen 30k medical bill. https://www.healthcare.gov/choose-a-plan/plans-categories/ https://www.healthcare.gov/choose-a-plan/plans-categories/ > Option to join an union with no repercussion >Same thing in the U.S. LOL, you must live a very sheltered life. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/business/coronavirus-unions-layoffs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/business/coronavirus-unio... https://news.yahoo.com/nearly-20-of-workers-illegally-fired-for-union-activity-report-154315586.html https://news.yahoo.com/nearly-20-of-workers-illegally-fired-...
- chickenpotpie 6y ago
  If you have to put a qualifier in front of “universal healthcare” it’s not universal healthcare
- stainforth 6y ago
  Aren't those the same things conservatives continually talking about and trying as Republicans to cut and get rid of?

Those same countries have very expansive social safety nets that are non-existent in the US.

by radus 6y ago

Those same countries have very expansive social safety nets that are non-existent in the US.

You mean like universal healthcare for low income people (Medicaid)? Or retirement security for low income people (Social security)? What exactly are you referring to?

cambalache 6y ago
Free college education 4-6 weeks of mandated paid vacation Substantial paid parental leave Option to opt in for half-time working and the companies are mandated to comply Universal healthcare not related to your job situation nor to the whims of the coverage of your health policy Option to join an union with no repercussion Any other question?
- bhupy 6y ago
  Nobody doubts that Nordic countries have generous social safety nets, but I think rayiner is scoffing at the notion that the US's social safety net is "non-existent", which is laughable. The US spends close to 80% of its Federal budget on social programs, including Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, EITC, SNAP/EBT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#/media/File:2019_Federal_Budget_Infographic.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#/... And that's not even including State-level welfare. Each State has its own unemployment insurance, welfare programs, and subsidized state university. In Georgia (where my alma mater is), university is essentially free if you can maintain a GPA > 3.5. On top of all that, the government is currently debating another big round of welfare and stimulus. A Republican has proposed a massive overhaul of welfare to provide up to $15,000 a year in cash for parents: https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22264520/mitt-romney-checks-parents-4200 https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22264520/mitt-romney-chec...
  - dualthro 6y ago
    > In Georgia (where my alma mater is), university is essentially free if you can maintain a GPA > 3.5. Why do I always see that the GA Tech OMSCS is ~$10,000? This is a serious question. If it's essentially free with a good GPA I might actually enroll.
    - rayiner 6y ago
      The Georgia program (HOPE) is for in-state high-school students getting their undergraduate degree, not people getting graduate degrees.
      - bhupy 6y ago
        I was referring to the more generous Zell-Miller scholarship. You get HOPE if you can maintain a GPA > 3.0.
      - dualthro 6y ago
        Interesting. Guess it would be cheaper to go to an in person graduate program in Europe: https://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees https://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees
  - radus 6y ago
    I can see how you may read it that way, but I did not state that the US does not have any social safety nets - that would be as you pointed out, obviously false. To re-iterate, my point was that the US lacks very expansive social safety nets such as those present in Nordic countries, some of which were enumerated by cambalache. Were the US to adopt some of those policies, perhaps the minimum wage would be less important.
- rayiner 6y ago
  > Free college education Is free college part of the "safety net" given that the majority of people in Scandinavian countries don't go to college? How is this relevant to a discussion of minimum wage workers? > 4-6 weeks of mandated paid vacation > Substantial paid parental leave Paid vacation and parental leave are good examples of social benefits that exist in Scandinavia but not in the U.S. > Option to opt in for half-time working and the companies are mandated to comply Is working half hours a problem minimum wage workers actually face? This sounds more like a benefit for more skilled workers, who > Universal healthcare not related to your job situation nor to the whims of the coverage of your health policy For minimum wage workers, the same exists in the U.S. A full-time minimum wage job where I live in Maryland pays $21,000. Through the Affordable Care Act, someone my age (36) at that income level can buy a "Gold" plan with low deductibles for $75/month. That works out to about 4.2% of income, basically the same as the higher income taxes you'd pay in Sweden on that same income. Except in Maryland your sales tax is 6% rather than the 25% VAT in Sweden. > Option to join an union with no repercussion Same thing in the U.S.
  - cambalache 6y ago
    > Is free college part of the "safety net" given that the majority of people in Scandinavian countries don't go to college? Half of the people have tertiary education. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_... > How is this relevant to a discussion of minimum wage workers? Gee, I dont know, maybe becuase college students with no degrees has a higher probability of a minimum wage. But he can study and work, not to choose between both or a life-enslaving credit. > Is working half hours a problem minimum wage workers actually face? Minimum-wage earners are people too, not mindless drones. You have there colleges students, second-income parents, people trying to create their own business, people working in the arts, volunteers. > For minimum wage workers, the same exists in the U.S. In a gold plan you still have to co-pay 20% of your costs, so good luck with an unforseen 30k medical bill. https://www.healthcare.gov/choose-a-plan/plans-categories/ https://www.healthcare.gov/choose-a-plan/plans-categories/ > Option to join an union with no repercussion >Same thing in the U.S. LOL, you must live a very sheltered life. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/business/coronavirus-unions-layoffs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/business/coronavirus-unio... https://news.yahoo.com/nearly-20-of-workers-illegally-fired-for-union-activity-report-154315586.html https://news.yahoo.com/nearly-20-of-workers-illegally-fired-...
chickenpotpie 6y ago
If you have to put a qualifier in front of “universal healthcare” it’s not universal healthcare
stainforth 6y ago
Aren't those the same things conservatives continually talking about and trying as Republicans to cut and get rid of?