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Lots of major changes, so I hope it doesn't create a schism. Do SQLAlchemy users appreciate how lucky they are? I generally prefer to use c#/.net but the 3 Mic

Lots of major changes, so I hope it doesn't create a schism. Do SQLAlchemy users appreciate how lucky they are? I generally prefer to use c#/.net but the 3 Microsoft ORMs (linq-to-sql, ef, ef.core) are all half baked. I don't know much about ActiveRecord, Django or other ORMs. I wish I could have this sort of feature set and dynamic abilities that I get in sqlalchemy on the .net side. I say that as someone who loves SQL but appreciates the conveniences of a powerful ORM.

sirn 6y ago
There have been so many times where I started a new project in a new shiny language and ended up coming back to Python because I love SQLAlchemy (and Pyramid) way too much. It's one of the few ORMs out there that doesn't hate you for liking SQL.
- ergo14 6y ago
  Same here, I'd like to dive into golang. But there is nothing as good as SQLAlchemy. Maybe with generics we will start seeing some projects that can fill the gap.
  - enjeyw 6y ago
    Mmm yeah I had the same experience. My end conclusion for Golang was "don't use an ORM".
    - RSHEPP 6y ago
      This exactly, I use github.com/doug-martin/goqu for some of my projects though. Only the query builder part though.
- nrmitchi 6y ago
  > doesn't hate you for liking SQL This, just 100% this. I'm not a major fan of SQL or anything, however I get very hesitant to use any ORM that tries to imply that you don't need to understand how SQL or the underlying database actually works. Any time I hear someone say that "SQL won't scale for my app", I assume that some rudimentary query analysis would solve 99% of problems.
bitexploder 6y ago
Django ORM has grown on me. I think it isn't quite as powerful as SQLAlchemy, but it is really quite decent. SQLAlchemy lets me think closer to SQL if I want to, and that is nice as well. I tend to use the Django ORM the most lately... but all 3 of those are rather full featured and accomplish the average user's needs. SQLA is still my favorite ORM anywhere.
- fernandotakai 6y ago
  same! i like that SQLAlchemy made me actually learn SQL. but for like, boilerplate stuff, Django's ORM works so well. also, because it's all within the same "framework", every single library can adapt super well to it and more a shitton of dumb code from your hands.
  - bitexploder 6y ago
    I love reading about the thumping and bumping of modern frameworks. Meanwhile tons of great software gets written in rails and Django while startups cargo cult along. Maybe I am being curmudgeonly here, but, I think it’s true.

sirn 6y ago

There have been so many times where I started a new project in a new shiny language and ended up coming back to Python because I love SQLAlchemy (and Pyramid) way too much. It's one of the few ORMs out there that doesn't hate you for liking SQL.

ergo14 6y ago
Same here, I'd like to dive into golang. But there is nothing as good as SQLAlchemy. Maybe with generics we will start seeing some projects that can fill the gap.
- enjeyw 6y ago
  Mmm yeah I had the same experience. My end conclusion for Golang was "don't use an ORM".
  - RSHEPP 6y ago
    This exactly, I use github.com/doug-martin/goqu for some of my projects though. Only the query builder part though.
nrmitchi 6y ago
> doesn't hate you for liking SQL This, just 100% this. I'm not a major fan of SQL or anything, however I get very hesitant to use any ORM that tries to imply that you don't need to understand how SQL or the underlying database actually works. Any time I hear someone say that "SQL won't scale for my app", I assume that some rudimentary query analysis would solve 99% of problems.

bitexploder 6y ago

Django ORM has grown on me. I think it isn't quite as powerful as SQLAlchemy, but it is really quite decent. SQLAlchemy lets me think closer to SQL if I want to, and that is nice as well. I tend to use the Django ORM the most lately... but all 3 of those are rather full featured and accomplish the average user's needs. SQLA is still my favorite ORM anywhere.

fernandotakai 6y ago
same! i like that SQLAlchemy made me actually learn SQL. but for like, boilerplate stuff, Django's ORM works so well. also, because it's all within the same "framework", every single library can adapt super well to it and more a shitton of dumb code from your hands.
- bitexploder 6y ago
  I love reading about the thumping and bumping of modern frameworks. Meanwhile tons of great software gets written in rails and Django while startups cargo cult along. Maybe I am being curmudgeonly here, but, I think it’s true.