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I grew up in metro Atlanta and studied at Georgia Tech. The state government subsidizes college education for grads with a certain GPA (HOPE Scholarship). Howev

I grew up in metro Atlanta and studied at Georgia Tech. The state government subsidizes college education for grads with a certain GPA (HOPE Scholarship). However, I (and most CS grads I knew) left Atlanta for better paying jobs in NYC/Bay Area/Seattle/Austin. I always wondered why the ATL tech scene was 'underdeveloped' compared to comparable sized cities like Seattle and Austin, despite having major research institutions (Georgia Tech and Emory) to anchor it. This is what I mean by 'underdeveloped': - Most software dev job postings (as of May 2018) have SPECIFIC tech stack requirements. This to me is a red flag. Most recruiters in 'developed' tech cities assume that software development skills are transferable and that technology stacks/frameworks/languages can be learned. - The salaries offered were still very low compared to comparable COL locations like Austin - No major FAANG presence to put upward pressure on local developer wages

rjbwork 6y ago
Just out of curiosity, as an Atlanta based dev, what kinds of salaries are common in Austin at various levels?
- pratik661 6y ago
  I hope I don't open a major can of worms by my parent comment. This is based on a sample of my own personal experience of 1 Austin interview and LOTs of Atlanta interviews. As a SDE with 4 YOE, I was offered $110k ish in Austin vs barely scraping 90-100k in Atlanta. I ended up taking an offer in NYC (which was my top choice to begin with).
  - dimmke 6y ago
    I live in Atlanta. I get a lot of recruiters pitching me senior SWE jobs from mediocre companies with salary ranges between 115k-130k. I think 130-150 is average for senior roles. That's definitely lower than other markets, but Atlanta is a much cheaper place to live than most other big cities. Housing is definitely catching up though. The only thing I will say about Atlanta, it gets HUMID for large swathes of the year. The climate is really unpleasant if you're prone to sweating and enjoy being outdoors.
    - ethbr0 6y ago
      Someone from a more temperate climate asked me about sweating in the South once. "What do you do when it's 90+ and you need to be outside?" "You sweat and accept that other people sweat." If you shower once a day, a little sweat isn't a bit deal. I think of it as making sure my pores are clear.
  - nzt48 6y ago
    Out of all of the new-grad GT students I know, the minimum they were offered was 83k in Atlanta.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 6y ago
  levels.fyi is a good resource. Those are typically Bay Area salaries so a good rule of thumb is to take the numbers reported there and knock off 10-20% for Austin.
  - PNWChris 6y ago
    I recently got a new job in a Midwestern city and made extensive use of levels.fyi (and Blind) during the process. It helps a ton with setting expectations and understanding what wages and equity to aim for (or a bit above even). There’s a feature on the site where you can click a given level for a given company, and filter the individual offer data to a given metro/city. It’s super useful, even if a bit more labor intensive than being able to use the top-of-the-fold summary stats. Edit: the link to click is “filter locations”, it’s on the top right after clicking/opening a given level’s info card.
  - aeoleonn 6y ago
    I'd say knock off more considerably than 10-20%, at least compared to this cost of living calculator: https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/compare/austin-tx-vs-seattle-wa https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/compare... $150k in Austin equates to $236k in Seattle (knock off 35%) $150k in Austin equates to $296k in SF Bay (knock off 50%)
    - pivoter 6y ago
      Cost of living calculations are silly. Nobody earning 236k in seattle is spending their entire paycheck on cost of living. Tell me, does a share of Tesla cost more in Seattle than Austin?
      - andrewzah 6y ago
        $236k in Columbia, South Carolina is vastly different than $236k in Seattle. Cost of living calculations are not only not silly, they're essential. Stock market shares are the same, but things like gas prices, groceries, utilities, and rent are vastly different.
- echelon 6y ago
  I live in Atlanta and grew up in the area. This is my 2021 total comp from workday: $160k base $380k equity $540k total comp I've been highly compensated in Atlanta for nearly my entire career, except the year when I worked out of ATDC. edit: I misread that you were looking for Austin figures, not Atlanta. I still think this is valuable for the ATLiens here. We've had tech companies here for over a decade - you just have to know.
  - rytill 6y ago
    So you thought the OP asked "What software engineer salaries are common in Atlanta at various levels?" and you replied, "Here is my $540k salary. (This datapoint should be included in your perception of what is common in Atlanta.)"
    - echelon 6y ago
      Yeah.
  - throwaway713 6y ago
    You make $540k and still want to live in Atlanta? Out of curiosity, do you really like the area more than other places? Or is it because family is nearby?
    - echelon 6y ago
      The simple answer is that my family is here, but it's honestly more than that. I've spent time in SF, Portland, various cities in Texas, and a year in Florida. (Never the northeast or Colorado, which are omissions - but I hate snow and cold.) Spent a year in Japan, and a few months in China. Expat life might have been fun if I was still in my 20's... Despite all of that, Atlanta has always felt right. It's incredibly diverse - way more than many cities - and full of culture. The music scene is on point, and I used to go to shows at least once a week before the pandemic. I'm frequently on the Beltline (and used to use it to commute to work pre-Covid). The Hooch, ample outdoors, hiking, lakes. I also own an amazing condo here. 25'' ceilings, penthouse skyline view with 20'' windows, historic all-brick walls. It's amazing. It'd easily cost millions in another city, yet my mortgage payment is less than $2k/mo here. I'll probably be able to retire at 40. Or start a company with minimal risk. Georgia has a ton to do, and the cost of living is still incredibly cheap. I can't imagine leaving, just buying a second home.
nkozyra 6y ago
You could say this of most metros. The most glaring is Boston, which is an international hub for tech education but isn't really competitive with the cities you list, at least relative to its educational reputation. When I think of NYC, SF, Austin, Seattle, I think of cities with robust arts/culture/dining/entertainment, accessibility (public transit) and enough professional basis to allow job mobility. These things entice younger people to congregate. There are other metros that have great education and in particular tech education (Raleigh/Durham, Pittsburgh, Chicago) but don't tend to build up tech industries.
- pratik661 6y ago
  Thats a really good point. Boston, Chicago, and Pittsburg meet the research university criteria. Perhaps a tech center needs temperate weather (hard to convince a new grad to move to Pittsburg vs moving to Austin of Bay Area)? In that case, Atlanta has the weather going for it.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    The humidity knocks it down a few notches though, in my opinion.
  - burnthrow 6y ago
    Boston is a major tech hub.
    - meddlepal 6y ago
      I mentioned this in a different comment. Its a major tech hub, but not in a way that would be apparent to your average HN software dev. Boston/Cambridge is THE bioengineering hub of the US.
      - ghaff 6y ago
        Yeah. SV gets defined mostly as the hub for the sort of tech that it's the hub for. Which is more than a bit self-referential.
Xcelerate 6y ago
I also grew up in metro Atlanta and studied at Georgia Tech and was about to post essentially the same comment. All of my friends interested in tech at GT went to the Bay Area as soon as they could once they graduated. The school itself attracts a lot of talent from all around the world, but very few people seem to stay in Atlanta once they graduate. The city recently made a big push to attract talent in the entertainment and film industries, which appears to have worked pretty well. It would be nice to see them do something similar for tech. It's kind of sad that the state subsidized my education (and many others) but does not have the incentives in place to keep people once they graduate. Also, the local salaries are a big part of the reason people leave. The low cost of living does not make a difference when you can save more per year in the Bay Area than an entirely yearly salary in Atlanta.
- dhagz 6y ago
  Between this and Microsoft's recent announcement of opening an Atlanta office, I think tech is the next sector the city wants to attract. And as someone living in ATL and working at one of the few companies to offer competitive salaries for their tech positions, this is only upside in my eyes.
- philsnow 6y ago
  I've sometimes wondered about why GA Tech was an early adopter of online education (at least for comp sci, I don't know if it extended/extends to other programs). I'm not saying there are any reasons they should not have been an early adopter... but Atlanta definitely has its charms, and allowing people to get a masters from a top-ten program while scarcely ever setting foot on campus seems like it could be a disservice to the state.
- brightball 6y ago
  I was very surprised Amazon didn’t end up in Atlanta for their 2nd HQ.
  - prepend 6y ago
    Yeah same here. I think their DC location was smarter lobbiest wise and just shows Amazon is digging in for the long haul and saying politics are more important than tech workers.
jseliger 6y ago
California has a huge advantage in the form of no non-competes: https://www.vox.com/new-money/2017/2/13/14580874/google-self-driving-noncompetes https://www.vox.com/new-money/2017/2/13/14580874/google-self..., NYC has a huge advantage in the form of the subway and sheer size, and so on. It's surprising to me that more states don't outright ban noncompetes and build out subway networks, but they don't.
- mlinksva 6y ago
  DC's non-compete ban should go into effect later this year https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/d-c-mayor-signs-bill-to-ban-non-competes-2578291/ https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/d-c-mayor-signs-bill-to-ba... and they have a subway network. Will be really interesting to see what affect this has (though of course it'll be difficult to tease out). It's possible most non-competes will be banned nationally (US), see https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/biden-can-free-millions-from-coercive-employment-contracts https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/biden-can-free-mil... and https://joebiden.com/empowerworkers/#:~:text=Eliminate%20non-compete https://joebiden.com/empowerworkers/#:~:text=Eliminate%20non...
  - foobiekr 6y ago
    One problem is the dc metro tech industry is, on the balance, in Virginia, some in DC proper and a small amount of non-Federal in Maryland (less probably due to the taxation in MD).
- wil421 6y ago
  I am not a lawyer but reside in Georgia. It's doubtful Software Engineers are covered by non-competes in Georgia. You could use one for sales people and possibly an ex-founder or executive.
  - monocasa 6y ago
    GA modified their constitution in 2011 in order to make non competes broadly applicable and enforceable. Software engineers probably fall under their "company professionals" category that allows for non-competes. They also removed time limits on the non-compete; non-competes can be valid for as long as the trade secrets you were exposed to are still trade secrets (so can be forever).
blueblisters 6y ago
I get that Atlanta does not have the tech pull of Bay Area/Seattle/Austin, but it feels like a very well-rounded city overall, without being too expensive. Midtown is already saturated with tech companies and startups because of Georgia Tech but there's a lot of stuff happening in other parts of the city which give it a very unique character.
dominotw 6y ago
> I always wondered why the ATL tech scene was 'underdeveloped' I lived and worked there for a while there. * Most of the tech jobs are out in burbs like alpharetta ect. * City is just not great. There isn't much to do. * Feels a bit old school and traditional. * No access to snow for skiing , to the ocean for surfing, mountain biking trails are decent but not great. * Music scene is not good. I don't like to listen to country , rock ect. * I always feel a little scared to drive outside ATL into GA, Alabama. Confederate flags, churches in the gas stations. I've heard some stories from my friends. I admit that this might be an irrational fear.
- geitir 6y ago
  From and still live in Atlanta. There's a good music scene if you like electronic actually. Everything else p much true.
- my_usernam3 6y ago
  > Music scene is not good. I don't like to listen to country , rock ect. Clearly you don't listen to rap and hip hop either
  - sudosteph 6y ago
    Right? That is such a weird point. Atlanta has a lot of young people, it's affordable, it's next door to Athens GA which punches way above it's weight for music output and culture... It's very respectable city from a music standpoint. Especially for rap and hip-hop artists, as you mentioned.
    - fuzzer37 6y ago
      Just the fact that R.E.M came from there is enough for me.
  - dominotw 6y ago
    Yea correct. I am not an american. I like to listen to electronic, classical, international 'world' music.
the_only_law 6y ago
I grew up in the very outer burbs of the Atlanta metro and have kinda been stuck bouncing around the south ever since. Currently I’m in Florida and I’ve been similarly confused by how underdeveloped tech feels here. I mean this is one of the biggest states with several metropolitan areas and a large economic base, but frankly most of what I’ve seen as far as tech jobs seems mostly underwhelming.
- technick 6y ago
  Miami is going to blow up soon. A lot of talent is leaving Silicon Valley for Miami. The weather is great year around, cheap taxes, less restrictive government and cheaper real estate.
  - BurritoAlPastor 6y ago
    Isn’t Miami going to be underwater in a few decades?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - mmcclure 6y ago
    This is a common meme, but "a lot of talent is leaving Silicon Valley for Miami" is anecdotal and not backed up by any data I've seen, such as USPS address changes[1]. Other places in California are getting most of the people leaving, with Austin and Portland being the only external metro areas I've seen in the top 20. Miami isn't even a blip on the "where people are going" radar statistically, but the hype and anecdotes could always make it a reality long-term. I have my doubts, personally. [1] https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/People-are-leaving-S-F-but-not-for-Austin-or-15955527.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/People-are-leavi...
    - technick 6y ago
      USPS address changes are not a fool proof way of tracking migration. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/01/26/forget-about-san-francisco-and-silicon-valley-miami-is-planning-on-being-the-next-great-tech-hub/?sh=3802532b466e https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/01/26/forget-abo... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/tech-flight-why-silicon-valley-heading-miami-austin-texas-n1255330 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/tech-flight-w... [3] https://news.crunchbase.com/news/why-miami-is-the-next-hot-tech-hub/ https://news.crunchbase.com/news/why-miami-is-the-next-hot-t... [4] https://www.wired.com/story/miami-mayor-woos-techies-what-does-he-need-to-succeed/ https://www.wired.com/story/miami-mayor-woos-techies-what-do... [5] https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/miami-mayor-pushes-silicon-valley-big-tech-to-move-to-florida-reports-its-absolutely-working https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/miami-mayor-pushes-si... Further, look at real estate prices for the area. The markers are there, just need to look for it.
darth_avocado 6y ago
One thing to add to this list, which gets talked less about is : Work Culture and Work Diversity. I work in a major tech firm that has offices in Atlanta. To mildly put it, it isn't friendly. Bay Area, Seattle, and to a certain extent NY and Austin have a certain set of values set in the workplace that simply don't exist everywhere. Your race, gender, nationality, and plenty of other things can invite an unwelcoming vibe towards you. Work life balance are less respected. And the fact that at the end of the day we are just human beings working with other human beings seems to be lost to many.
- jeffy90 6y ago
  I recently moved to the bay area, and I've gotten the vibe that work life balance is less respected in the bay area compared to where I came from.
  - Melanin 6y ago
    ofcourse, bay area is a melting pot of f'ry.
- pratik661 6y ago
  I think we might be the same background. What notable experiences have you had working in Atlanta? I'm curious because I have never worked there professionally, but have heard some stories.
  - darth_avocado 6y ago
    I don;t live in Atlanta. I've just worked in two separate companies that have an office in Atlanta. I've worked with the people in those offices and my experience so far has been, well, not a fun one. Not to say that everyone is bad, just like not to say everyone in the bay area is great, but the number of difficult situations you get put into, rise dramatically when you deal with offices outside the Bay Area.
- alfalfasprout 6y ago
  I have to agree with the other comment. I found the Bay Area to be more hostile and discriminatory than any other work environment I've been in. Specifically if you even slightly disagree with certain social viewpoints. We may have achieved better racial diversity (somewhat) in the Bay but at the expense of minimal ideological diversity. I've even seen firsthand how racism against asians and Indians is rampant and often conducted by those that supposedly are advocates for minorities.
runako 6y ago
Atlanta native & (again) resident. Spent years working in Austin in the years around the .com boom. Couple of thoughts: - the tech startup scene is hurting for risk capital. Seed & Series A investors (primarily) come from capital generated at prior exits (e.g. Google millionaires seed the next round of startups, etc.). Atlanta has had some big exits, but not the kind that mint 100s of young millionaires. By contrast, Seattle has had two mega tech exits. Austin had Dell and a few .com hits as accelerants (and their money has had decades to spawn more companies). There are some exciting Atlanta startups that may exit to create the seeds for the next generation of companies. (Honestly, the aspiring early-stage VCs could do a lot worse than backing companies in the Atlanta area now. Less competition to get in on deals, equity likely cheaper, and the pandemic means that later-stage investors are considering doing deals outside of northern California.) > Most software dev job postings (as of May 2018) have SPECIFIC tech stack requirements. Likely an artifact of the diversified economy here. The non-tech Fortune 500s HQ'd in the area hire a lot of tech people. That's going to skew how recruiters operate. For the most part, this is not a factor in the tech metros. Also, I would push back on the premise in general. I have not seen very many job postings of the form "backend dev needed, any stack and database experience are okay." That would seem to be the outlier. > The salaries offered were still very low compared to comparable COL locations like Austin Austin is notably more expensive than Atlanta. > No major FAANG presence to put upward pressure on local developer wages Obviously TFA is about adding new tech presence to the area. But Microsoft building its East Coast HQ in Atlanta is also a big deal. Anecdotally, I have also seen compensation inflation among F500 companies in the area. Things are changing.
cat199 6y ago
> I always wondered why the ATL tech scene was 'underdeveloped' compared to comparable sized cities like Seattle and Austin No insight on Atlanta or Seattle, but Austin has had tech longer than people like to think (IBM/Freescale, UT Austin+TI Partnerships, etc), and also got on the 'hype train' early by rebranding SXSW from pure music/entertainment into 'SXSW Interactive' quite a while back (early 2000s if I'm not mistaken), so you have lots of west coast tech/media/vc 'influencers' heading there on a yearly basis getting schmoozed heavy
monocasa 6y ago
They neutered HOPE unfortunately. Used to be you needed a 3.0 high school GPA to qualify, now you need a 3.7 (not counting the GPA boosts you get from Honors and AP), and they don't cover books or fees anymore, and they upped the in college GPA requirements. It was really unfortunate to see such a blatant money grab.
- gnicholas 6y ago
  > now you need a 3.7 (not counting the GPA boosts you get from Honors and AP) Does this mean that you're actually better off taking unweighted non-honors/AP classes and getting a better grade, rather than taking honors/AP classes and getting a less good grade?
  - monocasa 6y ago
    Yeah, that's one unfortunate side effect.
  - mssundaram 6y ago
    I recall AP classes being weighted 1 point higher, so I often had a GPA above 4, e.g. 4.2. So wouldn't it not make a difference? Get a B in an AP class and it counts as an A anyways
    - monocasa 6y ago
      Not under HOPE calculation of GPA which is different than your school's. The point is that they don't weight AP and honors any higher like you're saying. They removed that in order to cut the HOPE budget.
      - DenseComet 6y ago
        The HOPE GPA does add 0.5 for all AP/IB classes. It doesn't apply to all honors classes, which is unfortunate, but they do recognize that some classes are harder.
- DenseComet 6y ago
buttholesurfer 6y ago
As someone who moved to Atlanta after college for a job, there are TONS of dev jobs here in the metro. I'm not sure I agree with a majority of your statement.
technick 6y ago
I left Atlanta in 2011 and discovered the closer I was to the West Coast, the more money I made (including adjustments for cost of living). Atlanta has a lot of things going against it, such as a mass transit system that doesn't serve the majority of the suburbs, bad traffic, poor health statistics, low education ranking, and being in the bible belt.
downut 6y ago
Both my wife and I graduated GT ChE 35 years ago and really liked living in downtown Atlanta. Not many traffic problems downtown, midtown, out east except Ponce at 5PM. Afterwards PHX, Mountain View, Santa Clara, and a delicious stint in '90s SOMA. Now 25 years in the mountains of AZ, lots of experience with PHX traffic. I just got back from 2 days crisscrossing PHX at 80mph, 9AM-3PM. I've driven in many US cities, and had to suffer the DC traffic horror show for work trips. My wife's current company HQ is across the mighty traffic river of the 285 from the Brave's fancy new ballpark. I used to tag along on the twice yearly trips because in theory, downtown and midtown Atlanta are pretty good looking and have a lot of cool urban things; then there are the Buford HW culinary expeditions. I stopped because even though I had complete freedom to travel in the middle of the day, using Google Maps for advice, I could not get even a single day when one direction did not fail into stupid dumb no way to route around time destruction gridlock. I watched the Guadalara MX evening commute for 5 days from something like 25th floor of the hotel, and it made me think. A couple of trips to the 'De Efe' MX and stupidly riding a tourist bus at 5pm (no time to spare!) made me think some more. Yesterday I was looking and thinking about Tempe, and its absolutely magnificent building boom. It's a spectacular transformation, for an American City. La Defense, without decent art. I wouldn't want to spend much time in either... Tempe because of the soon to be 130F summer days. LD, because if you're in Paris, why??. Both Tempe and Atlanta have built a beautiful urban infrastructure with tall business and residential buildings that are generally structured as 3-7 stories of vehicle storage, possibly underground, and a bunch of greatness stacked above. Tempe is headed toward the worst commutes south of the border, and Atlanta is already there. Yeah, I haven't mentioned something here. Deh Efe has it and it doesn't matter. Tempe at least has that freight track it will eventually commandeer. Because of city fragmentation, and some uh residual social issues, Atlanta is a lost cause. The future is very, very stupid. I'm not a transit expert, but I do love to ride the trains.
- httpsterio 6y ago
  is this a ML kinda post?
  - anu7df 6y ago
    You beat me to this comment!!

rjbwork 6y ago

Just out of curiosity, as an Atlanta based dev, what kinds of salaries are common in Austin at various levels?

pratik661 6y ago
I hope I don't open a major can of worms by my parent comment. This is based on a sample of my own personal experience of 1 Austin interview and LOTs of Atlanta interviews. As a SDE with 4 YOE, I was offered $110k ish in Austin vs barely scraping 90-100k in Atlanta. I ended up taking an offer in NYC (which was my top choice to begin with).
- dimmke 6y ago
  I live in Atlanta. I get a lot of recruiters pitching me senior SWE jobs from mediocre companies with salary ranges between 115k-130k. I think 130-150 is average for senior roles. That's definitely lower than other markets, but Atlanta is a much cheaper place to live than most other big cities. Housing is definitely catching up though. The only thing I will say about Atlanta, it gets HUMID for large swathes of the year. The climate is really unpleasant if you're prone to sweating and enjoy being outdoors.
  - ethbr0 6y ago
    Someone from a more temperate climate asked me about sweating in the South once. "What do you do when it's 90+ and you need to be outside?" "You sweat and accept that other people sweat." If you shower once a day, a little sweat isn't a bit deal. I think of it as making sure my pores are clear.
- nzt48 6y ago
  Out of all of the new-grad GT students I know, the minimum they were offered was 83k in Atlanta.
SOLAR_FIELDS 6y ago
levels.fyi is a good resource. Those are typically Bay Area salaries so a good rule of thumb is to take the numbers reported there and knock off 10-20% for Austin.
- PNWChris 6y ago
  I recently got a new job in a Midwestern city and made extensive use of levels.fyi (and Blind) during the process. It helps a ton with setting expectations and understanding what wages and equity to aim for (or a bit above even). There’s a feature on the site where you can click a given level for a given company, and filter the individual offer data to a given metro/city. It’s super useful, even if a bit more labor intensive than being able to use the top-of-the-fold summary stats. Edit: the link to click is “filter locations”, it’s on the top right after clicking/opening a given level’s info card.
- aeoleonn 6y ago
  I'd say knock off more considerably than 10-20%, at least compared to this cost of living calculator: https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/compare/austin-tx-vs-seattle-wa https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/compare... $150k in Austin equates to $236k in Seattle (knock off 35%) $150k in Austin equates to $296k in SF Bay (knock off 50%)
  - pivoter 6y ago
    Cost of living calculations are silly. Nobody earning 236k in seattle is spending their entire paycheck on cost of living. Tell me, does a share of Tesla cost more in Seattle than Austin?
    - andrewzah 6y ago
      $236k in Columbia, South Carolina is vastly different than $236k in Seattle. Cost of living calculations are not only not silly, they're essential. Stock market shares are the same, but things like gas prices, groceries, utilities, and rent are vastly different.
echelon 6y ago
I live in Atlanta and grew up in the area. This is my 2021 total comp from workday: $160k base $380k equity $540k total comp I've been highly compensated in Atlanta for nearly my entire career, except the year when I worked out of ATDC. edit: I misread that you were looking for Austin figures, not Atlanta. I still think this is valuable for the ATLiens here. We've had tech companies here for over a decade - you just have to know.
- rytill 6y ago
  So you thought the OP asked "What software engineer salaries are common in Atlanta at various levels?" and you replied, "Here is my $540k salary. (This datapoint should be included in your perception of what is common in Atlanta.)"
  - echelon 6y ago
    Yeah.
- throwaway713 6y ago
  You make $540k and still want to live in Atlanta? Out of curiosity, do you really like the area more than other places? Or is it because family is nearby?
  - echelon 6y ago
    The simple answer is that my family is here, but it's honestly more than that. I've spent time in SF, Portland, various cities in Texas, and a year in Florida. (Never the northeast or Colorado, which are omissions - but I hate snow and cold.) Spent a year in Japan, and a few months in China. Expat life might have been fun if I was still in my 20's... Despite all of that, Atlanta has always felt right. It's incredibly diverse - way more than many cities - and full of culture. The music scene is on point, and I used to go to shows at least once a week before the pandemic. I'm frequently on the Beltline (and used to use it to commute to work pre-Covid). The Hooch, ample outdoors, hiking, lakes. I also own an amazing condo here. 25'' ceilings, penthouse skyline view with 20'' windows, historic all-brick walls. It's amazing. It'd easily cost millions in another city, yet my mortgage payment is less than $2k/mo here. I'll probably be able to retire at 40. Or start a company with minimal risk. Georgia has a ton to do, and the cost of living is still incredibly cheap. I can't imagine leaving, just buying a second home.

nkozyra 6y ago

You could say this of most metros. The most glaring is Boston, which is an international hub for tech education but isn't really competitive with the cities you list, at least relative to its educational reputation. When I think of NYC, SF, Austin, Seattle, I think of cities with robust arts/culture/dining/entertainment, accessibility (public transit) and enough professional basis to allow job mobility. These things entice younger people to congregate. There are other metros that have great education and in particular tech education (Raleigh/Durham, Pittsburgh, Chicago) but don't tend to build up tech industries.

pratik661 6y ago
Thats a really good point. Boston, Chicago, and Pittsburg meet the research university criteria. Perhaps a tech center needs temperate weather (hard to convince a new grad to move to Pittsburg vs moving to Austin of Bay Area)? In that case, Atlanta has the weather going for it.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  The humidity knocks it down a few notches though, in my opinion.
- burnthrow 6y ago
  Boston is a major tech hub.
  - meddlepal 6y ago
    I mentioned this in a different comment. Its a major tech hub, but not in a way that would be apparent to your average HN software dev. Boston/Cambridge is THE bioengineering hub of the US.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      Yeah. SV gets defined mostly as the hub for the sort of tech that it's the hub for. Which is more than a bit self-referential.

Xcelerate 6y ago

I also grew up in metro Atlanta and studied at Georgia Tech and was about to post essentially the same comment. All of my friends interested in tech at GT went to the Bay Area as soon as they could once they graduated. The school itself attracts a lot of talent from all around the world, but very few people seem to stay in Atlanta once they graduate. The city recently made a big push to attract talent in the entertainment and film industries, which appears to have worked pretty well. It would be nice to see them do something similar for tech. It's kind of sad that the state subsidized my education (and many others) but does not have the incentives in place to keep people once they graduate. Also, the local salaries are a big part of the reason people leave. The low cost of living does not make a difference when you can save more per year in the Bay Area than an entirely yearly salary in Atlanta.

dhagz 6y ago
Between this and Microsoft's recent announcement of opening an Atlanta office, I think tech is the next sector the city wants to attract. And as someone living in ATL and working at one of the few companies to offer competitive salaries for their tech positions, this is only upside in my eyes.
philsnow 6y ago
I've sometimes wondered about why GA Tech was an early adopter of online education (at least for comp sci, I don't know if it extended/extends to other programs). I'm not saying there are any reasons they should not have been an early adopter... but Atlanta definitely has its charms, and allowing people to get a masters from a top-ten program while scarcely ever setting foot on campus seems like it could be a disservice to the state.
brightball 6y ago
I was very surprised Amazon didn’t end up in Atlanta for their 2nd HQ.
- prepend 6y ago
  Yeah same here. I think their DC location was smarter lobbiest wise and just shows Amazon is digging in for the long haul and saying politics are more important than tech workers.

jseliger 6y ago

California has a huge advantage in the form of no non-competes: https://www.vox.com/new-money/2017/2/13/14580874/google-self-driving-noncompetes https://www.vox.com/new-money/2017/2/13/14580874/google-self..., NYC has a huge advantage in the form of the subway and sheer size, and so on. It's surprising to me that more states don't outright ban noncompetes and build out subway networks, but they don't.

mlinksva 6y ago
DC's non-compete ban should go into effect later this year https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/d-c-mayor-signs-bill-to-ban-non-competes-2578291/ https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/d-c-mayor-signs-bill-to-ba... and they have a subway network. Will be really interesting to see what affect this has (though of course it'll be difficult to tease out). It's possible most non-competes will be banned nationally (US), see https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/biden-can-free-millions-from-coercive-employment-contracts https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/biden-can-free-mil... and https://joebiden.com/empowerworkers/#:~:text=Eliminate%20non-compete https://joebiden.com/empowerworkers/#:~:text=Eliminate%20non...
- foobiekr 6y ago
  One problem is the dc metro tech industry is, on the balance, in Virginia, some in DC proper and a small amount of non-Federal in Maryland (less probably due to the taxation in MD).
wil421 6y ago
I am not a lawyer but reside in Georgia. It's doubtful Software Engineers are covered by non-competes in Georgia. You could use one for sales people and possibly an ex-founder or executive.
- monocasa 6y ago
  GA modified their constitution in 2011 in order to make non competes broadly applicable and enforceable. Software engineers probably fall under their "company professionals" category that allows for non-competes. They also removed time limits on the non-compete; non-competes can be valid for as long as the trade secrets you were exposed to are still trade secrets (so can be forever).

blueblisters 6y ago

I get that Atlanta does not have the tech pull of Bay Area/Seattle/Austin, but it feels like a very well-rounded city overall, without being too expensive. Midtown is already saturated with tech companies and startups because of Georgia Tech but there's a lot of stuff happening in other parts of the city which give it a very unique character.

dominotw 6y ago

> I always wondered why the ATL tech scene was 'underdeveloped' I lived and worked there for a while there. * Most of the tech jobs are out in burbs like alpharetta ect. * City is just not great. There isn't much to do. * Feels a bit old school and traditional. * No access to snow for skiing , to the ocean for surfing, mountain biking trails are decent but not great. * Music scene is not good. I don't like to listen to country , rock ect. * I always feel a little scared to drive outside ATL into GA, Alabama. Confederate flags, churches in the gas stations. I've heard some stories from my friends. I admit that this might be an irrational fear.

geitir 6y ago
From and still live in Atlanta. There's a good music scene if you like electronic actually. Everything else p much true.
my_usernam3 6y ago
> Music scene is not good. I don't like to listen to country , rock ect. Clearly you don't listen to rap and hip hop either
- sudosteph 6y ago
  Right? That is such a weird point. Atlanta has a lot of young people, it's affordable, it's next door to Athens GA which punches way above it's weight for music output and culture... It's very respectable city from a music standpoint. Especially for rap and hip-hop artists, as you mentioned.
  - fuzzer37 6y ago
    Just the fact that R.E.M came from there is enough for me.
- dominotw 6y ago
  Yea correct. I am not an american. I like to listen to electronic, classical, international 'world' music.

the_only_law 6y ago

I grew up in the very outer burbs of the Atlanta metro and have kinda been stuck bouncing around the south ever since. Currently I’m in Florida and I’ve been similarly confused by how underdeveloped tech feels here. I mean this is one of the biggest states with several metropolitan areas and a large economic base, but frankly most of what I’ve seen as far as tech jobs seems mostly underwhelming.

technick 6y ago
Miami is going to blow up soon. A lot of talent is leaving Silicon Valley for Miami. The weather is great year around, cheap taxes, less restrictive government and cheaper real estate.
- BurritoAlPastor 6y ago
  Isn’t Miami going to be underwater in a few decades?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- mmcclure 6y ago
  This is a common meme, but "a lot of talent is leaving Silicon Valley for Miami" is anecdotal and not backed up by any data I've seen, such as USPS address changes[1]. Other places in California are getting most of the people leaving, with Austin and Portland being the only external metro areas I've seen in the top 20. Miami isn't even a blip on the "where people are going" radar statistically, but the hype and anecdotes could always make it a reality long-term. I have my doubts, personally. [1] https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/People-are-leaving-S-F-but-not-for-Austin-or-15955527.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/People-are-leavi...
  - technick 6y ago
    USPS address changes are not a fool proof way of tracking migration. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/01/26/forget-about-san-francisco-and-silicon-valley-miami-is-planning-on-being-the-next-great-tech-hub/?sh=3802532b466e https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/01/26/forget-abo... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/tech-flight-why-silicon-valley-heading-miami-austin-texas-n1255330 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/tech-flight-w... [3] https://news.crunchbase.com/news/why-miami-is-the-next-hot-tech-hub/ https://news.crunchbase.com/news/why-miami-is-the-next-hot-t... [4] https://www.wired.com/story/miami-mayor-woos-techies-what-does-he-need-to-succeed/ https://www.wired.com/story/miami-mayor-woos-techies-what-do... [5] https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/miami-mayor-pushes-silicon-valley-big-tech-to-move-to-florida-reports-its-absolutely-working https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/miami-mayor-pushes-si... Further, look at real estate prices for the area. The markers are there, just need to look for it.

darth_avocado 6y ago

One thing to add to this list, which gets talked less about is : Work Culture and Work Diversity. I work in a major tech firm that has offices in Atlanta. To mildly put it, it isn't friendly. Bay Area, Seattle, and to a certain extent NY and Austin have a certain set of values set in the workplace that simply don't exist everywhere. Your race, gender, nationality, and plenty of other things can invite an unwelcoming vibe towards you. Work life balance are less respected. And the fact that at the end of the day we are just human beings working with other human beings seems to be lost to many.

jeffy90 6y ago
I recently moved to the bay area, and I've gotten the vibe that work life balance is less respected in the bay area compared to where I came from.
- Melanin 6y ago
  ofcourse, bay area is a melting pot of f'ry.
pratik661 6y ago
I think we might be the same background. What notable experiences have you had working in Atlanta? I'm curious because I have never worked there professionally, but have heard some stories.
- darth_avocado 6y ago
  I don;t live in Atlanta. I've just worked in two separate companies that have an office in Atlanta. I've worked with the people in those offices and my experience so far has been, well, not a fun one. Not to say that everyone is bad, just like not to say everyone in the bay area is great, but the number of difficult situations you get put into, rise dramatically when you deal with offices outside the Bay Area.
alfalfasprout 6y ago
I have to agree with the other comment. I found the Bay Area to be more hostile and discriminatory than any other work environment I've been in. Specifically if you even slightly disagree with certain social viewpoints. We may have achieved better racial diversity (somewhat) in the Bay but at the expense of minimal ideological diversity. I've even seen firsthand how racism against asians and Indians is rampant and often conducted by those that supposedly are advocates for minorities.

runako 6y ago

Atlanta native & (again) resident. Spent years working in Austin in the years around the .com boom. Couple of thoughts: - the tech startup scene is hurting for risk capital. Seed & Series A investors (primarily) come from capital generated at prior exits (e.g. Google millionaires seed the next round of startups, etc.). Atlanta has had some big exits, but not the kind that mint 100s of young millionaires. By contrast, Seattle has had two mega tech exits. Austin had Dell and a few .com hits as accelerants (and their money has had decades to spawn more companies). There are some exciting Atlanta startups that may exit to create the seeds for the next generation of companies. (Honestly, the aspiring early-stage VCs could do a lot worse than backing companies in the Atlanta area now. Less competition to get in on deals, equity likely cheaper, and the pandemic means that later-stage investors are considering doing deals outside of northern California.) > Most software dev job postings (as of May 2018) have SPECIFIC tech stack requirements. Likely an artifact of the diversified economy here. The non-tech Fortune 500s HQ'd in the area hire a lot of tech people. That's going to skew how recruiters operate. For the most part, this is not a factor in the tech metros. Also, I would push back on the premise in general. I have not seen very many job postings of the form "backend dev needed, any stack and database experience are okay." That would seem to be the outlier. > The salaries offered were still very low compared to comparable COL locations like Austin Austin is notably more expensive than Atlanta. > No major FAANG presence to put upward pressure on local developer wages Obviously TFA is about adding new tech presence to the area. But Microsoft building its East Coast HQ in Atlanta is also a big deal. Anecdotally, I have also seen compensation inflation among F500 companies in the area. Things are changing.

cat199 6y ago

> I always wondered why the ATL tech scene was 'underdeveloped' compared to comparable sized cities like Seattle and Austin No insight on Atlanta or Seattle, but Austin has had tech longer than people like to think (IBM/Freescale, UT Austin+TI Partnerships, etc), and also got on the 'hype train' early by rebranding SXSW from pure music/entertainment into 'SXSW Interactive' quite a while back (early 2000s if I'm not mistaken), so you have lots of west coast tech/media/vc 'influencers' heading there on a yearly basis getting schmoozed heavy

monocasa 6y ago

They neutered HOPE unfortunately. Used to be you needed a 3.0 high school GPA to qualify, now you need a 3.7 (not counting the GPA boosts you get from Honors and AP), and they don't cover books or fees anymore, and they upped the in college GPA requirements. It was really unfortunate to see such a blatant money grab.

gnicholas 6y ago
> now you need a 3.7 (not counting the GPA boosts you get from Honors and AP) Does this mean that you're actually better off taking unweighted non-honors/AP classes and getting a better grade, rather than taking honors/AP classes and getting a less good grade?
- monocasa 6y ago
  Yeah, that's one unfortunate side effect.
- mssundaram 6y ago
  I recall AP classes being weighted 1 point higher, so I often had a GPA above 4, e.g. 4.2. So wouldn't it not make a difference? Get a B in an AP class and it counts as an A anyways
  - monocasa 6y ago
    Not under HOPE calculation of GPA which is different than your school's. The point is that they don't weight AP and honors any higher like you're saying. They removed that in order to cut the HOPE budget.
    - DenseComet 6y ago
      The HOPE GPA does add 0.5 for all AP/IB classes. It doesn't apply to all honors classes, which is unfortunate, but they do recognize that some classes are harder.
DenseComet 6y ago

buttholesurfer 6y ago

As someone who moved to Atlanta after college for a job, there are TONS of dev jobs here in the metro. I'm not sure I agree with a majority of your statement.

technick 6y ago

I left Atlanta in 2011 and discovered the closer I was to the West Coast, the more money I made (including adjustments for cost of living). Atlanta has a lot of things going against it, such as a mass transit system that doesn't serve the majority of the suburbs, bad traffic, poor health statistics, low education ranking, and being in the bible belt.

downut 6y ago

Both my wife and I graduated GT ChE 35 years ago and really liked living in downtown Atlanta. Not many traffic problems downtown, midtown, out east except Ponce at 5PM. Afterwards PHX, Mountain View, Santa Clara, and a delicious stint in '90s SOMA. Now 25 years in the mountains of AZ, lots of experience with PHX traffic. I just got back from 2 days crisscrossing PHX at 80mph, 9AM-3PM. I've driven in many US cities, and had to suffer the DC traffic horror show for work trips. My wife's current company HQ is across the mighty traffic river of the 285 from the Brave's fancy new ballpark. I used to tag along on the twice yearly trips because in theory, downtown and midtown Atlanta are pretty good looking and have a lot of cool urban things; then there are the Buford HW culinary expeditions. I stopped because even though I had complete freedom to travel in the middle of the day, using Google Maps for advice, I could not get even a single day when one direction did not fail into stupid dumb no way to route around time destruction gridlock. I watched the Guadalara MX evening commute for 5 days from something like 25th floor of the hotel, and it made me think. A couple of trips to the 'De Efe' MX and stupidly riding a tourist bus at 5pm (no time to spare!) made me think some more. Yesterday I was looking and thinking about Tempe, and its absolutely magnificent building boom. It's a spectacular transformation, for an American City. La Defense, without decent art. I wouldn't want to spend much time in either... Tempe because of the soon to be 130F summer days. LD, because if you're in Paris, why??. Both Tempe and Atlanta have built a beautiful urban infrastructure with tall business and residential buildings that are generally structured as 3-7 stories of vehicle storage, possibly underground, and a bunch of greatness stacked above. Tempe is headed toward the worst commutes south of the border, and Atlanta is already there. Yeah, I haven't mentioned something here. Deh Efe has it and it doesn't matter. Tempe at least has that freight track it will eventually commandeer. Because of city fragmentation, and some uh residual social issues, Atlanta is a lost cause. The future is very, very stupid. I'm not a transit expert, but I do love to ride the trains.

httpsterio 6y ago
is this a ML kinda post?
- anu7df 6y ago
  You beat me to this comment!!