4 ms·

> Only responsible and healthy individuals should self-use drugs, generally speaking. The funny thing I've been reading the article and the tone of it reminded

by ordu 6y ago

> Only responsible and healthy individuals should self-use drugs, generally speaking. The funny thing I've been reading the article and the tone of it reminded me of heroin addicts who was not hit by their addiction heavily yet. I mean, Carl Hart thinks he is a responsible user, that he have an ability to decide for himself. It doesn't seem so for me. It is hard to tell, having as a data only one interview with him. But... you know, I'm an addict also, a nicotine one. I know how it is. First ten years of my addiction I though that there is nothing wrong with that, it costs some money and gives an urge to smoke sometimes, but it brings some benefits too. A few years ago I stopped smoking, after a month of abstinence I saw no benefits in smoking at all. My abstinence lasted for a couple of years, now I'm smoking again. Seeing no benefits at all. I know what I'm speaking about, I know the signs, I see the signs, and I see Carl Hart as a fellow addict, though with a different substance. I drink alcohol sometimes, and I know that I'm not an addict. Even despite the fact that sometimes I want to drink. A wish to drink is a warning sign of course, but I see no other signs. Like a despair coming with the thought that now it is not the good time to drink for some reasons. I have no ideas about benefits of being drunk: it is a funny state of mind, but mostly annoying, I'm really stupid when drunk, I see my stupidity and can do nothing to it. An addiction is a special state of mind, I believe one (i.e. me) could feel it as distinct from other states. Though it takes some learning, one needs to become an addict and to stop using an addictive substance of his choice. If Carl Hart wanted to prove that he is not an addict, he should stop using heroin for a couple of years, and then try to state his freedom from an addiction with a straight face. While he is using heroin for just five years and didn't tried to stop, I'd never believe his words that he is not an addict. When it would be 10-15 years or 5 years of abstinence, I'll probably believe his word on it.

cirgue 6y ago
> The funny thing I've been reading the article and the tone of it reminded me of heroin addicts who was not hit by their addiction heavily yet. Having known someone who was a responsible, highly educated adult with a fantastic career who died of a heroin overdose, this whole article sounded eerily familiar.
- shmageggy 6y ago
  Do you know whether this person's overdose was due to an escalating addiction or due to mixing with other substances or impurities? That's the distinction the article is trying to make
  - cirgue 6y ago
    It was due to an escalating addiction, not impurities.
chimprich 6y ago
> I drink alcohol sometimes, and I know that I'm not an addict. > If Carl Hart wanted to prove that he is not an addict, he should stop using heroin for a couple of years, and then try to state his freedom from an addiction with a straight face. So by that logic... we should only believe that you're not an alcohol addict after you stop using alcohol for a couple of years?
- wizzwizz4 6y ago
  Indeed. Why do you think this is a gotcha? Do you think the comment's author hasn't thought of that?
  - chimprich 6y ago
    Why do I think it's a gotcha? Because there seems to be a double standard: ordu is allowed to innately know that they are not an alcohol addict, but the author of the article is not extended the same courtesy. I don't know if ordu has thought of that, but they don't appear to have from their comment. I find the idea that the only way to know if you're not an addict is to give up for a period of years to be very problematic. Most definitions of addict suggest they are unable to control their compulsion, but I couldn't see any indication of that from the article. If the author of the article can sustain occasional use while maintaining a high profile job (science professor), their use doesn't appear to be out of control.
    - ordu 6y ago
      > ordu is allowed to innately know that they are not an alcohol addict, but the author of the article is not extended the same courtesy. Yeah, something like this. I'm not entirely sure that alcoholic addiction would be just like a nicotine one, but I believe it would be similar enough for me to detect it. If I'm right I might hope that my experience with nicotine could be generalized to alcohol. Maybe unrelated to a discussion of "is a period of abstinence is revealing", but I rarely drink alcohol, and a year or two without a drop of alcohol is a normal to me. > Most definitions of addict suggest they are unable to control their compulsion, but I couldn't see any indication of that from the article. I see no indication that he is able to control it. He is like "I want to take heroin, so I'm taking it". It is a very popular stance for addicts. When I tried to control my nicotine addiction it mostly ended with "I do not want to control". Even now I do not want to control, though I now see the difference between "I do not want to control" and "I want to smoke". I do not want to smoke and do not want to control my addiction. When plane uncontrollable falling to a ground due to a failure, a pilot could state that it is his intention, and therefore the fall is a controlled one. People often do something like this, but for an addict it is a symptom by itself.

by ordu 6y ago

cirgue 6y ago

> The funny thing I've been reading the article and the tone of it reminded me of heroin addicts who was not hit by their addiction heavily yet. Having known someone who was a responsible, highly educated adult with a fantastic career who died of a heroin overdose, this whole article sounded eerily familiar.

shmageggy 6y ago
Do you know whether this person's overdose was due to an escalating addiction or due to mixing with other substances or impurities? That's the distinction the article is trying to make
- cirgue 6y ago
  It was due to an escalating addiction, not impurities.

chimprich 6y ago

> I drink alcohol sometimes, and I know that I'm not an addict. > If Carl Hart wanted to prove that he is not an addict, he should stop using heroin for a couple of years, and then try to state his freedom from an addiction with a straight face. So by that logic... we should only believe that you're not an alcohol addict after you stop using alcohol for a couple of years?

wizzwizz4 6y ago
Indeed. Why do you think this is a gotcha? Do you think the comment's author hasn't thought of that?
- chimprich 6y ago
  Why do I think it's a gotcha? Because there seems to be a double standard: ordu is allowed to innately know that they are not an alcohol addict, but the author of the article is not extended the same courtesy. I don't know if ordu has thought of that, but they don't appear to have from their comment. I find the idea that the only way to know if you're not an addict is to give up for a period of years to be very problematic. Most definitions of addict suggest they are unable to control their compulsion, but I couldn't see any indication of that from the article. If the author of the article can sustain occasional use while maintaining a high profile job (science professor), their use doesn't appear to be out of control.
  - ordu 6y ago
    > ordu is allowed to innately know that they are not an alcohol addict, but the author of the article is not extended the same courtesy. Yeah, something like this. I'm not entirely sure that alcoholic addiction would be just like a nicotine one, but I believe it would be similar enough for me to detect it. If I'm right I might hope that my experience with nicotine could be generalized to alcohol. Maybe unrelated to a discussion of "is a period of abstinence is revealing", but I rarely drink alcohol, and a year or two without a drop of alcohol is a normal to me. > Most definitions of addict suggest they are unable to control their compulsion, but I couldn't see any indication of that from the article. I see no indication that he is able to control it. He is like "I want to take heroin, so I'm taking it". It is a very popular stance for addicts. When I tried to control my nicotine addiction it mostly ended with "I do not want to control". Even now I do not want to control, though I now see the difference between "I do not want to control" and "I want to smoke". I do not want to smoke and do not want to control my addiction. When plane uncontrollable falling to a ground due to a failure, a pilot could state that it is his intention, and therefore the fall is a controlled one. People often do something like this, but for an addict it is a symptom by itself.